Analogy for "sweet" espresso? - Page 2

#11: Post by **brianl** » August 29th, 2015, 12:04 am

RioCruz wrote:I can tell you for sure what sour is! The next time you are in Santa Cruz, CA get an espresso from Verve. Pure lemon juice. I've tried many times to like their fare, but...sadly...not my taste treat at all. I've finally given up on them...but many on this forum LOVE their coffee. So...there ya have it...

No experience with the cafe but love the blends. The sermon is my go to and its usually always chocolate and stone fruits so I have no idea what you're talking about.

But my point is, everything on here is purely opinions. Some people are the princess and the pea when it comes to espresso

Like I cannot stand comfort blends and usually find them disgusting

#12: Post by **brianl** » August 29th, 2015, 12:07 am

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:Sounds like you inadvertently pulled a ristretto. Finer grind, slower flow rate, lower volume or beverage mass, and tastes sweeter, with a syrupy, heavier body. Welcome to the land of ristrettos!

I don't think this is generally true as ristrettos usually underextract for me and I get anything but sweet. Normales usually get me my sweetness.

Ristrettos have a higher strength but a lower extraction. However I'm sure blends are engineered with this is mind

#13: Post by **aecletec** » August 29th, 2015, 3:37 am

I suppose it depends on definitions but grinding finer for my usual ristretto shot is sweeter than higher volume shots for me.

August 29th, 2015, 9:24 am

brianl wrote:I don't think this is generally true as ristrettos usually underextract for me and I get anything but sweet. Normales usually get me my sweetness.

Ristrettos have a higher strength but a lower extraction. However I'm sure blends are engineered with this is mind

Sometimes if not executed right, you can get overly salty or umami tastes. But ristrettos are generally considered to be sweeter, lower output, and syrupy, as a result of finer grind and slower flow rate. And often with an overall longer brew time than a normale.

#15: Post by **brianl** » August 29th, 2015, 10:23 am

aecletec wrote:I suppose it depends on definitions but grinding finer for my usual ristretto shot is sweeter than higher volume shots for me.

Agree to disagree I suppose. My normales are usually extremely jammy and sweet. I have always followed the logic that generally sweetness increases when extraction increases.

The super sour shots at verve are that way because based on their coffee recommendations they suggest a ristretto recipe for their espresso blends.

Factors affecting sour/bitter balance in espresso

I think this is a good post. Ristretto shots are complicated ha

August 29th, 2015, 2:09 pm

chuckcoffee wrote:Carsncoffee

So thats a Ristretto, well someone is going to have to try that poured over ice cream

What is the difference between sour and acidic?

For me, sour is an overwhelming flavor that causes you to pucker and is generally unpleasant. Acids are in general, sour; acidic in my espresso/coffee is perhaps a milder version of sour. I guess I liken it to a nice vineagrette- balanced.

#17: Post by **aecletec** » August 29th, 2015, 5:02 pm

I'd be pretty damn happy if I could get a super jammy and sweet normale!
My equipment isn't really the best for that I suppose - the more water that goes through the cooler it gets... Maybe when I finally graduate to a boiler machine...

#18: Post by **neutro** » September 1st, 2015, 12:21 pm

chuckcoffee wrote:OK along this line. I was pulling a shot earlier today and my beans were in transition in the hopper so I was not properly dialed in. I started the shot and waited about 50 secs and did not have much of a shot, just covering bottom of 10 oz cap cup. I set that to the side and did another dose for a cap with reduced weight.

Later I came back and saw the cup sitting there with this very dark coffee sitting in the cup. Started moving it in the cup and well it moved like syrup. Oh.. tasting time.

Well it was super yummy, sweet but strong coffee flavor. The coffee was at room temp,

Looking for comments

I have no idea what you did there Chuck, but I accidentally managed to do pretty much the same recently. Supposedly stale beans (>2 weeks in the hopper), non-espresso grinder set too fine, very long extraction without properly flushing the group, etc. But it was by *far* my best shot ever, on many levels (taste, texture, sweetness, etc.). I never was able to reproduce it completely. However it seems that the finer grind was a key --- it probably helped in itself and also provided a more uniform and balanced extraction.