zin1953 wrote:It will take me far longer to "pay off" my current setup, but let's look at the setup I had for 25+ years. Two Gaggia Coffees @ $299 each, plus a Gaggia MDF @ $199. That's $797 in equipment, plus a knockbox and consumables. (For much of that time, I actually used that cheap plastic tamper!) Let's presume two drinks per day, every day¹, and you figure of saving $2/drink. So if I'm saving $4 a day, that took 199 days to break even. The remaining 8,932 days², I saved $4 per day, or a total of $35,728. Given the rate of inflation, I may have even saved more.

I hear what you are seeing Jason, but again this is all pretty theoretical stuff. I dont want to labour on this point, but it is a bit apples and oranges comparing the cost of equipment 25 years ago to the Starbucks/coffeeshop savings from today. What would the estimated $2 saving of today been 5 years ago, 15 years ago, 25 years ago? Was there a Starbucks in 1984? I strongly suspect it would have been much less the further you go back.

Financial comparisons to other hobbies and 'cost per cup' and always fun and interesting, but are a little pointless in the end. We are into espresso cos we love it, and I would always encourage people down this path if they want to explore espresso further. But it doesnt feel right professing that saving money is a main reason to do so.

And to that, I am now going to savour this little ristretto that I have just prepared........ahhhh lovely!

michaelbenis wrote:A good second hand lever machine, like a Caravel, and a quality hand grinder will get you excellent results for a modest outlay, easy home maintenance, minimal maintenance costs, low bean waste and shots that compare favourably with some of the best commercial setups and exceed what is served in most bars

I couldnt agree more, but I think it is the relatively few enlightened leveristas who could appreciate this

Enlightenment is within reach of all, grasshopper....

malachi wrote:Anyone who justifies making espresso at home as being more affordable is either lying to themselves or bad at financial modeling.

Espresso at home is:...
c) sociable...

Huh? How is making espresso at home sociable vs. going to a coffee bar? Don't get me wrong, I mostly consume espresso at home, perhaps 20X more than I consume in bars. I just don't see how that is more sociable.

Len

ziobeege_72 wrote:I hear what you are seeing Jason, but again this is all pretty theoretical stuff. I dont want to labour on this point, but it is a bit apples and oranges comparing the cost of equipment 25 years ago to the Starbucks/coffeeshop savings from today. What would the estimated $2 saving of today been 5 years ago, 15 years ago, 25 years ago? Was there a Starbucks in 1984? I strongly suspect it would have been much less the further you go back.

Gino? There actually was espresso in the US before Starbucks. Shocking, I know! (That said, Starbucks was founded in 1971, IIRC, yet I never set foot in one until some 15-20 years later; there were always other, better alternatives around.)

Look at it this way: if a latte is, say, $3.00 today -- yes, it was certainly less 20 years ago. Then again, so was the cost of coffee beans at retail, milk, electricity, and so on. In a generalized discussion of this sort, to my mind it's less a matter of apples and oranges, and more of "a wash" -- meaning it's all equal in the end.

But seriously, Gino, I do not know of anyone who says "I'm going to save money and start making espresso at home." (Just as the bread or tomato analogy above.) That said, I have heard say that about roasting their own beans ("Beans are so expensive; I can do it so much cheaper myself!"), something I do not do -- for the same reason that, after 34 years in the wine trade, I've never had the desire to make wine at home. Most people, it seems to me, start to make their espresso, cappuccino, or latte at home because a) they don't want to wait for coffee until they drive somewhere, and b) they want to make better coffee than they get outside. They will -- ultimately -- save some money, IMHO, but it's not what launches the quest.

Cheers,
Jason

ziobeege_72 wrote:I couldnt agree more, but I think it is the relatively few enlightened leveristas who could appreciate this

Robert Frost wrote:Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference

I was torn between a Mypressi Twist and a lever... I found a La Peppina and a friend hooked me up with a PID. I have been very happy with the results. The Wife is starting to really enjoy cappuccinos (with various soy frothing techniques).

I mainly pull shots at night and on weekends, but once I repackage the PID in a counter-friendly enclosure I'm hoping to add weekday morning shots to the routine.

Any home espresso machine makes a good and cheap substitute for Starbucks style milk drinks; but doing consistent better-than-Italy straight shots gets expensive.

$500 or so will get you occasional great straight shots, but each step up in consistency costs a lot more. The equipment required to get to the rock solid consistency of Italian espresso bars is not going to fare well in a present value calculation against going to local cafes

Dear readers and experts alike,

I can say that my experience is the machine and grinder; quality ones and associated parts and tamper, etc cost a bit up front...but over time I am consistently making good espresso and cappuccinos. Much less costly I think than my barista down the road.

Once guy I know charges $2.25 for a double espresso and it's the roasted beans from the same guy I buy my greens from.

It depends on what your set up is and the costs where you go; don't forget opportunity costs, mileage and gas, time and ? of quality.

AT home it's much more fun and you can control the variables.

I believe even after a large outlay I can say my expense is less at home.

Buy one good breakdown in equipment could use up those savings.

FWIW.

John

HB wrote:...compared to the typical cost of outfitting a kitchen, a semi-commercial espresso setup is not a substantial outlay. As I noted in my earlier post, you can "dabble" in very good espresso for less than $300; that would not even pay for two saute pans my wife lusts after. And don't get me started on the cost of her "dream" cooktop.

Tel me about it Dan. If I had known in advance, I could have "bundled" my espresso equipment into the cost of our new kitchen and gotten virtually any setup I wanted. It would have been a little blip on the radar.