MiKe nailed some good points! It's not easy to roast coffee and even more difficult to produce a great espresso mainly because espresso adds even more to the already complex equation. The first time I tried roasting coffee in my oven using a deep fry basket I was hooked. But it didn't take long to realize I was going to be drinking some pretty awful coffee for a long time and didn't even consider trying espresso roasting. Kinda like taking up the piano and realizing that your going to listen to some lousy playing for quite awhile. But I had the will and drive to endure. After 3 years of practice, study and more practice and close to a year building an adequate DIY roaster, I can generally produce a pretty good coffee roast and can once in awhile get a decent espresso batch. All my friends think my roasts are great and that is encouraging but I know that I can do much better with more practice and knowledge. How important is the quality and capabilities of the roaster? As Mike has learned it is very important. Even if you generally understand the process of roasting, the roaster must have the needed capabilities. The off the shelf home roasters just don't have all of the capabilities needed to produce a roast on par with a good commercial roaster. If you want "Great" espresso there many great sources, for some local and many just 1-3 shipping days away. If you are willing to take the time and spent the money to DIY go for it!!! But realize there are no short cuts or plug and play home roasters that will get you where you really want to be. It's a long journey, but looking back one for me worth every bit of the effort. But I have many roasts yet to go before I rest.

farm

miKe mcKoffee wrote: Just don't do it thinking to save time or money.

I'm not sure why people keep saying this. I save both time and money. But I don't pretend that my roast is as good as the pros.
I think what you mean is that if you expect to have commercial quality roast you will have to invest a lot of time and money. But I believe most home roasters do in fact save both time and money, even if they are sacrificing in quality.
The same thing could be said for brewing espresso. My machiattos are not as good as the good shops here in Vancouver, but I do save both time and money by brewing at home.

bgn wrote:I'm not sure why people keep saying this. I save both time and money.

Show me your books. Costs of selecting and buying about 18+ oz of quality greens to yield 1lb roasted + shipping____, value/amount of labor/time it takes to roast 1lb______Cost/time of the education per lb_____cost per 1lb of the roaster investment_____cost of electricity, bags/containers, accessories,etc. per 1lb______value difference of a better quality roast______
farm

bgn wrote:I'm not sure why people keep saying this. I save both time and money.

I can do 5 roasts in 3.5 hours with the UberHotTop.

CA minimum wage is $8/hr. Figure $28 for 2.2 pounds = $12.72 / pound. Add in ~$4-6 / pound for green, say ~$2 for electricity, machine amortization and all the associated accessories doesn't leave much change out of a double. That's only the roasting. Add in many more hours researching green, record keeping, graphing, etc.

I can get the best coffees on the planet delivered for MUCH less with at time investment of less than 5 minutes.

The ONLY reasons to home roast:

- explore coffees unobtainable from a commercial roaster.
- learn what happens to the bean. iRoar, BehMor, Bravi et al do not cut it. You need total control.

The missus figures the home roasted coffee @ $300 / pound.

Anyone who says they save time or money is delusional.

I just took a homemade lemon meringue pie from the oven..a gift for my girlfriends moms birthday. Took about 1 1/2 hours...before I retired my rate as a communications contractor was $100-$125 per hour so what do you figure that pie cost? She thinks my pies are better than any she can buy..I have my doubts but she loves them.

I also figure every fish I ever caught cost around $1000 per pound but damn they were good.

It's normal for me to have a nice scotch rocks on my patio while my roast does its thing. What a nice hobby that allows me to buy a product that costs $3-$5 per pound delivered and turn it into something that taste wonderful.

Yes, I still purchase roasted coffee from the great roasters from time to time but mostly we prefer my home roast.

Dan

I guess i'm delusional. Thanks for the honest and professional diagnosis. My actual costs (i.e. cash going out my pocket) is about $20/month for 4 coffees a day, seven days of the week. My roasting equipment cost me about $100 and is now beginning it's third year in service. As for my time? I'm cheap. If people are home roasting when they should be billing their hours then they dont have time to do it. As for me, if I wasn't roasting (one hr/week) i'd be doing something else that was also unbillable time spent.

Very interesting thread. I will add another question from another point of view (hopefully NOT hijacking the thread). I have an entry level espresso machine, with a very consistent hand grinder. I am a student, I am poor, and I went to Dunn Bro's to buy the only freshly roasted coffee in the area, and I turned around and walked out the door empty handed when I saw the price tag of $18 per bag....for Dunn Bro's. Have I tried "great" espresso? Not yet. The best I have had so far was when I tried a shot from a super auto with freshly roasted beans from a good local roaster. I am also considering home roasting, and may give it a shot if I can find a pop corn popper suitable.

Here is my question: Compared to my Starbucks espresso, and my home espresso using stale grocery store beans, will getting SM amber blend at 6 dollars per pound (same price as my stale, grocery store beans) and home roasting them with a popper give me better results within the first few tries?

I understand that roasting is an art.....as is developing your coffee palate. I have neither as of yet.....

Aurora must be an expensive suburb ... Dunn Brothers makes pretty good coffee, but $18 per pound?

Two options:

1. If you get it into town, Black Cat is $15, and Redline $12.50 per pound, and both are a step above Dunn Brothers. If you have a freezer, you can buy several pounds and store them for use.

2. If you roast, buy any old popcorn popper (the side versus upward air flow distinction is a myth), and roast to a rolling second crack. Dump the beans into a pair of collanders and dump them back and forth to cool and dechaff. If you roast outdoors, use a box to cover the popper so the intake air gets heated. Adjust the amount of coffee you roast per batch so it takes around 8 to 9 minutes (less coffee for longer roasts). This won't be terrific, but it'll be fun and fresh. Monkey is a "popper friendly" blend. Even friendlier is roasting a DP Ethiopian, Yemen or Brazil; these are the most post popper friendly coffees.

My advice is to do both and see which you prefer.

jayjp04 wrote:Compared to my Starbucks espresso, and my home espresso using stale grocery store beans, will getting SM amber blend at 6 dollars per pound (same price as my stale, grocery store beans) and home roasting them with a popper give me better results within the first few tries?

Compared to stale grocery store beans: yes. Compared to Starbucks espresso: maybe.

I haven't had a Starbucks espresso in years; from what I recall, they were acceptable, just roasted to death. However they probably have very capable grinders and espresso machines. Without knowing what equipment you're working with, its hard to say how it'd stack up.

Thank you for your replies. Jim, a couple questions, and I apologize if you have answered these a million times before...I have done my fair share of reading on here prior to posting, so here goes!

1. On SM website it says the side vented poppers are the only ones that work...are you saying that any style popcorn popper will work? This would make it much easier for me to get a hold of one....

2. Thank you for the list of beans. Even after reading I was confused on whether to start out by drinking espresso blends or SO coffees. Are their any other SO/blends that you recommend to someone new in the hobby of roasting and tasting that may be a little more "forgiving"? And again, this main be a "it depends on the origin" question, but for the couple you listed, are these SO coffees (for espresso) preferred at a lighter roast vs. darker roast?

Thanks again