I pulled a few shots of espresso today from Roast 1.As espresso the chocolate and sweetness still predominate. Vanilla and a hint of dried fig, and -- again -- not much acid. However, we're getting a fair amount of caramel. Body is good, but not excellent.

I'm not getting any nuttiness, nor cinnamon nor any other spice. The sweetness itself is neither white sugar, nor brown sugar but has more than a hint of the unrefined Mexican sugar, pilon. But even with pilon, vanilla and cholate, because of the lack of nuttiness and cinnmanon, I can't say it's like "Mexican drinking chocolate" like Chris did.

Overall, it's a pleasant but not particularly distinguished shot. Very Brazilian and Very Classic Italian Espresso Without The Nuts.

On Thursday we brewed Roast 2 in the Royal (balance beam siphon) and while it had more life than Roast 1 and a little less depth, it still fit the description for Roast 1 in my earlier post. Roast 2 went a couple of degrees hotter than Roast 1; a little bit deeper into the roast, into the first snaps of 2dC; and with a faster Development. To save you the trouble of clicking back and forth, the other data were the same as for Roast 1. Here's the plot:


This morning, I dumped what was left of Roast 2 on top of Roast 1 in the espresso grinder -- so it's probably espresso the rest of the way.

While it's pleasant enough, at this time I admit to being -- shall we say -- underwhelmed by this bean. I'll give the beans a couple more days to age before passing final judgment on it, but expect to be using the remainder of my 10lb purchase to give away/sell for automatic drip or for use as an espresso blend base.

Rich

boar_d_laze wrote:
As a sort of generic recommendation for roasting a 200g Charge in a HotTop, you might try a 13:00 roast -- 6:00, 4:00, 3:00 -- to FC (about 5F short of 2dCs).

The most basic things aren't so much recipe as discipline, self-honesty and good technique -- all of which add up to roasting on purpose instead of letting the bean or your roaster drag you along. Now that you know the temperatures for the roast milestones of 1stCs, 1stCe and 2dCs, plot a roast -- in writing, so you don't BS yourself -- with specific time intervals to the milestones, and try your best to stick it.

It's more important to make things perform according to a good plan than lucking into the perfect roast. Twice true when working with new equipment.

Rich

Thank you for your guidance. I took your advice to heart on my 2nd attempt:

Charge weight: 200g
Charge temp: 300F BT
Yield: 171g, 14.5 % moisture loss
Dry time: 6 min
1st C: 10:38 min
Dev. time: 2:11 min
Total Time: 12:49 min

If I feel this roast needs to be tweeked after I taste it, I will lower charge temp another 10F and extend Dev. time closer to 3 min. I dropped a little earlier then 3 min because I thought I heard a 2nd crack, after I dropped there were no were no 2C in the tray.

Will update after I taste.

10/26/14
Melitta pour over: 21g coffee, 201F water
This cup was nothing special, rather bland and just a cup of coffee.

Pulled a shot: 18 grams, 39g yield in 40sec.
Pulled beautifully, no signs of spices/nuts/chocolates. I did find the shot was overwhelmed by smooth caramel and sugar. I have enjoyed this more than what I have gotten from my previous roast.



Always open to any critiques.

I'm sorry that you didn't get any of the notes that I did Rich, and I can understand being underwhelmed by this bean as it's not flashy in the least and I can also understand that its not to everyone's taste. I do however stand by my notes and do think this is a clean and complex coffee that's fun to roast. I'm roasting a bunch right now just for my own use. I really got a lot out of this coffee, everything I mentioned before and to reiterate I'm just so pleased at how universally this coffee performs brewing wise. It really shows so much of what I miss in coffee, a lot of low end while not being murky. It's just so balanced and sweet. I also like that this is a coffee that you have to ROAST to get the best out of it, not one where it's all about going super light and relatively quick. You gotta work with this coffee in the roaster, and that was largely my aim in selecting this.

Judging by your log Rich, it looks like you added quite a bit of time after the end of 1st C and I wonder if this is where you flattened some of the spice and cocoa notes. When I stretch after 1st C, I always feel like it really washes out the cup. I do most of my work to this coffee before 1st.

chrisschooley wrote:I'm sorry that you didn't get any of the notes that I did Rich, and I can understand being underwhelmed by this bean as it's not flashy in the least and I can also understand that its not to everyone's taste. I do however stand by my notes and do think this is a clean and complex coffee that's fun to roast.

Chris,

I did read your notes. My profiles are about as similar to your "Roast 2" as you can get comparing a classic drum sample roaster like mine, to an open face sample roaster like yours. I.e., slow/fast/moderate. Considering how different those two machines, my results aren't too different from yours.

Judging by your log Rich, it looks like you added quite a bit of time after the end of 1st C

One roast (R&L 1) had a slightly extended Development, the other one (R&L 2) didn't.

I wonder if this is where you flattened some of the spice and cocoa notes.

Cocoa dominated both roasts, it definitely wasn't flattened. Neither of my roasts exhibited spice or nuts... perhaps a lighter finish.

When I stretch after 1st C, I always feel like it really washes out the cup. I do most of my work to this coffee before 1st.

I try to take a balanced approach, usually roasting with a slightly extended drying period, a fast ramp and a Development period proportional to finish level -- short for C, intermediate for C+, and longish for FC.

My General Approach to Roasting Before Specifically Profiling for a New bean
With few exceptions, I start with a new bean with "milestone" roast or two so I can get temps for 1stCs, 1stCe and 2dCs. Even though I drop most beans before 2dCs once I'm familiar with them, knowing the 2dCs temp allows me to anticipate and hit the C+/FC border with fair precision; and knowing the temp for 1stCs allows me full control over RoR, even as pyrolosis ends during rolling 1st. As a rule, I try to keep Development between 20% and 25% total roast time with this particular roaster.

Initially I Charge with very little gas and just enough airflow (about 25%) to maintain negative pressure in the drum. I go to 100% airflow at the 3:00 mark and back to 25% at 3:30 (ish); this brief burst of air helps me control the interval to EOD very precisely and clears any initial smoke and chaff. I call "EOD" at an arbitrary 300F and hit the gas pretty hard, while keeping a fairly low airflow. Then try to anticipate 1stCs by about 20F -- i.e., 5F - 10F before pyrolosis begins -- and lower the gas and hit the air pretty hard.

Even these initial roasts are typically sweet and deep, and wukk exhibit well developed fruit and spice notes if they're in the bean -- providing 2dCs doesn't kill them.

Getting Back to This Bean
R&L 1 was FC just shy of 2dCs, while R&L was FC at the first snaps of 2d. It's possible this bean would show better at C+ or C+/FC. The next time I roast it, I'll probably drop at 426F, 4F less than R&L 1; in other words, C+ nuzzling against FC, the finish I usually use for brew and espresso. This lighter finish will probably be more lively.

I'm definitely open to suggestion. How much Development time would you suggest for going from 1stCs at 390F to a 426F Drop following a 10min Drying + Ramp?

Finally, I'm just one guy. My preliminary lack of enthusiasm for this bean as an SO espresso doesn't make it a bad bean.

Rich

Chris,

First off let me thank you for taking the valuable time to lead the roast and learn. I usually don't participate in these but have been watching this thread with great interest.

I was getting results similar to Rich with this coffee, nice but rather unremarkable. Then I thought "Why would a guy that could pick the most dazzling coffees in the world chose one for this exercise that was just 'meh'?" it doesn't make any sense.

Well, I've roasted, now it's time to LEARN. I read your notes, I read your article on Brazil's, then I read your latest post. hmm nothing adds up, I stretch the dry, I roast to the right level but you get this amazing result and I get "meh", what is it?

Then I REALLY read your notes. HMMMM, 15 % development time after first crack to get to City, 18% development time after first crack to get to Full City!, I was using the Rao approved %20 to 25% (much closer to 25%, I was baking this thing for 3 1/2 minutes after first crack start )

Soooooo, I roasted up a couple batches and did not back off the heat 20 degrees before first to go in smoothly and get the "approved" proportional roast metric, I ran this baby right into it with a full head of steam (then backed off), ended FC in about a buck 40 and then smelled the roast from there on out. 30 seconds later I was at the door of 2nd and smelled no vinegar pungency and a waft of raisin so dropped this thing at 2:10 post First for a Full City Roast (a single snap of second) in 18% development time.

WOW, night and day. you were right in that all the work is done to this bean BEFORE first. Sweet spice aromatics, so so sweet in the cup, raisin, coacoa, cinnamon, nutty sweetness, and aromatics that were 10 times what I was getting before. This is only 36 hours post roast, this thing will be a monster in another 36 hours.

Thank you so much for the lesson!

Rao may not approve, but I definitely do!

I should add some details on roasting set up
USRC 3k monitoring with artisan
1000 gram charge weight
330F charge temp
410F finish (my thermometry is off, just something I live with, in this case didn't matter because I was roasting by nose, lol)
16% weight loss (guess from memory)
brew in press pot- 57gr/950ml 5 minute steep

rickylc wrote: Soooooo, I roasted up a couple batches and did not back off the heat 20 degrees before first to go in smoothly and get the "approved" proportional roast metric, I ran this baby right into it with a full head of steam (then backed off), ended FC in about a buck 40 and then smelled the roast from there on out. 30 seconds later I was at the door of 2nd and smelled no vinegar pungency and a waft of raisin so dropped this thing at 2:10 post First for a Full City Roast (a single snap of second) in 18% development time.

I should add some details on roasting set up
USRC 3k monitoring with artisan
1000 gram charge weight
330F charge temp
410F finish (my thermometry is off, just something I live with, in this case didn't matter because I was roasting by nose, lol)
16% weight loss (guess from memory)
brew in press pot- 57gr/950ml 5 minute steep

I'm interested to know your whole profile - at least how long before 300F and how long before 1cs?
Thanks
DickC

I am posting this from work so I don't have the profile here, but can upload a screen shot tonight. All times in the post are to the best of my recollection from a roast I did two days ago. I will update with exact numbers tonight. The thing I DO remember exactly is that it was 18% dev time after FCs to get to Full City.

I will also be awaiting you profile. All I have gotten from this bean is chocolate/coca... not to hard to get out of a Brazil. Looking for the POP of flavor you have found.

Chris,
I read your article..
I'm a little confused with these two statements..

"After 1st Crack finishes you want to get into 2nd Crack before 2 minutes, and honestly even under 1:30"

"I'd drop the batch either right before the beginning of 2nd Crack - maybe 45 seconds to a minute after the end of 1st Crack - or with 1 or 2 snaps of 2nd Crack in the drum "

If I add 0:45 seconds to my 1C time (1:15-1:30) that is around 2:00 - 2:15 development time..
Drop hearing a few snaps of 2C or just before 2C

Am I getting this correct or should I have a 3:00 - 3:30 min. development time.

This is the first of the roasts that tuned out nice



this one i stetched the dry phase a bit, everything else pretty much the same