Roast and Learn Together - January 2016 - Page 6
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Hello Jeff, I like this Ethiopian very much. Please do post your roasting profiles, your brewing methods, and your thoughts. I still have 4 lbs. to play and would like to see what I can do (and practice).jalpert wrote:I dunno. I did 3 roasts of this Hembala and it only further proved that I am not good at roasting DP Ethiopias.
Either I'm underdeveloped and fragrant, or properly developed and dull. Will post the charts tonight.
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Thanks! I know for sure this is a good coffee, and I have also ruined many pounds of other great DP Ethiopians recently from SM. So I am quite interested to troubleshoot.
And don't get me wrong - my roasts aren't bad, per se, it's just that some 3rd wave shops seem to really knock these DP Ethiopias out of the park - insane blueberry aroma, good rounded brightness, just a touch but not too much of that natural process dirtiness, decent sweetness, etc. My roasts are more along the lines of 'pretty good.'
And don't get me wrong - my roasts aren't bad, per se, it's just that some 3rd wave shops seem to really knock these DP Ethiopias out of the park - insane blueberry aroma, good rounded brightness, just a touch but not too much of that natural process dirtiness, decent sweetness, etc. My roasts are more along the lines of 'pretty good.'
- cimarronEric
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For DP, try lengthened dry time, ramp as fast as possible and then hit the brakes at the beginning of 1C and stretch 1C as much as possible. Drop at or slightly before end of crack.
Cimarron Coffee Roasters
www.cimarronroasters.com
www.cimarronroasters.com
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Did two roasts of the Guji Hambela four days ago and will try and post results tonight. I'm also very interested in others results as well. Great chance to learn something!
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Interesting. That sounds like classic slow-start-fast-finish. I'll try it out over the next couple of days, thanks!cimarronEric wrote:For DP, try lengthened dry time, ramp as fast as possible and then hit the brakes at the beginning of 1C and stretch 1C as much as possible. Drop at or slightly before end of crack.
- [creative nickname]
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Sorry I haven't been posting like usual -- it's a busy time of year, work-wise. Here's a quick walkthrough of my most successful profile for espresso. I'm still experimenting with brew roasts, as the one I've done so far was good but not stellar.
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Roasting Info:
Bean: Guji Hambela
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Charge Mass: 333g
Charge Temp: 375F
Dry/Ramp/Development: 3:10/3:18/1:39
FC-start temp: 377F
Finish Temp: 400F
Overall Roast Time: 8:07
Moisture Loss: 14%
Profile Plot:
[BT=Red, Exhaust=Green, Gas=Blue, Fan=Yellow]
Tasting Notes:
My best shots of this have been pulled at moderate brew ratios (20g in, 30g out) and pulled hot and slow. The resulting shots are very sweet, with strawberry, port wine and dark chocolate notes, along with hints of cinnamon, and a deep, satisfying body. I like it best after about a week of rest, which helps to tame the initially off-putting ferment notes and gives me that nice port wine flavor instead.
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Roasting Info:
Bean: Guji Hambela
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Charge Mass: 333g
Charge Temp: 375F
Dry/Ramp/Development: 3:10/3:18/1:39
FC-start temp: 377F
Finish Temp: 400F
Overall Roast Time: 8:07
Moisture Loss: 14%
Profile Plot:
[BT=Red, Exhaust=Green, Gas=Blue, Fan=Yellow]
Tasting Notes:
My best shots of this have been pulled at moderate brew ratios (20g in, 30g out) and pulled hot and slow. The resulting shots are very sweet, with strawberry, port wine and dark chocolate notes, along with hints of cinnamon, and a deep, satisfying body. I like it best after about a week of rest, which helps to tame the initially off-putting ferment notes and gives me that nice port wine flavor instead.
LMWDP #435
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Here's my second attempt with the Guji Hambela. My first attempt was very similar except I took the development phase to 2:00 @ 422F before dropping. Similar disappointing results however. My goal on this attempt was to drop 30 seconds sooner with the idea of getting more sweetness. This is actually a copy of a profile I did on a Yirg a couple of months ago that turned out quite good. Unfortunately,there really isn't anything about this roast that's very good. Fruit flavors are muted with an overall lack of sweetness. Also, mild baked taste up front (I'm guessing from the flat ROR between 7:00 and 8:00). I cut the gas down to almost off just after start of 1C, which in hind site, may have been a mistake. Under developed?
Roaster: TJ-067
Bean: Guji Hambela
Charge size: 455g
Charge temp.: 375F
Yellow: 4:03, 323F
1CS: 8:00, 400F
Drop: 9:26, 406F
Wt. loss: 13%
Roaster: TJ-067
Bean: Guji Hambela
Charge size: 455g
Charge temp.: 375F
Yellow: 4:03, 323F
1CS: 8:00, 400F
Drop: 9:26, 406F
Wt. loss: 13%
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Wow, I didn't realize roasting DP Ethiopian could be that complicated. I might be just lucky in my previous trials that the ferment notes you guys noticed in DP might have been burnt off in a slightly darker than usual roast.
My routine approach of DP bean is a low-and-slow start (the same as cimarronEric pointed out), but a faster and shorter finish. I couldn't remember where and when I picked up this idea, and simply roast this way without further thoughts. This is the first time I do a side-by-side experiment. As I mentioned in my earlier post, what struck me is the Dry-MAI (Ramp) 2-1 time ratio. Marshall (Endlesscycles) advocated a 6-3-3 roast, and Henry (Chang00) mentioned an 8-4-2 profile for DP Ethiopian. A hypothesis I heard of, is that DP beans are more heterogeneous in moisture contents, and the longer-than-usual Dry phase can make these beans more uniform and prepare them for the next step, Maillard reaction.
My immediate question is how to properly execute this 2-1 type of profile on a drum roaster, and to put it into the context of Rao's rules. The S-shape BT curve and the declining RoR is the natural behavior of a drum roaster. To achieve a 6-3 or 8-4 profile will require consistent increase of heat input, and this will result in linear increasing BT readouts and a flat RoR.
Last weekend I practiced increasing gas during a roast, and here are two of the profiles. As can be seen, when I stretch the Dry and compress the MAI, the RoR get shallower. I could get a recognizable decreasing RoR in the 5-4 profile, but mathematically it will be flat in an 8-4 profile. (It should be noted that the drum thermal mass/bean mass is different in each machine, and the timing and the scale of my gas adjustment should only be seen as a general trend.)
Those batches were for espresso purpose and they were opening up this morning. My general impression of these shallower RoR roasts is they are less-developed, and I'm more inclining to a deeper RoR roast. According to Scott Rao's explanation, the greater delta in the early stage of the roast the better developed of the bean, and my observation is in-line with his explanation. However, less-development is not necessarily bad, because IMHO it can either be compensated by longer roast time or reach to a higher drop temperature while retaining some acidity and high notes.
My routine approach of DP bean is a low-and-slow start (the same as cimarronEric pointed out), but a faster and shorter finish. I couldn't remember where and when I picked up this idea, and simply roast this way without further thoughts. This is the first time I do a side-by-side experiment. As I mentioned in my earlier post, what struck me is the Dry-MAI (Ramp) 2-1 time ratio. Marshall (Endlesscycles) advocated a 6-3-3 roast, and Henry (Chang00) mentioned an 8-4-2 profile for DP Ethiopian. A hypothesis I heard of, is that DP beans are more heterogeneous in moisture contents, and the longer-than-usual Dry phase can make these beans more uniform and prepare them for the next step, Maillard reaction.
My immediate question is how to properly execute this 2-1 type of profile on a drum roaster, and to put it into the context of Rao's rules. The S-shape BT curve and the declining RoR is the natural behavior of a drum roaster. To achieve a 6-3 or 8-4 profile will require consistent increase of heat input, and this will result in linear increasing BT readouts and a flat RoR.
Last weekend I practiced increasing gas during a roast, and here are two of the profiles. As can be seen, when I stretch the Dry and compress the MAI, the RoR get shallower. I could get a recognizable decreasing RoR in the 5-4 profile, but mathematically it will be flat in an 8-4 profile. (It should be noted that the drum thermal mass/bean mass is different in each machine, and the timing and the scale of my gas adjustment should only be seen as a general trend.)
Those batches were for espresso purpose and they were opening up this morning. My general impression of these shallower RoR roasts is they are less-developed, and I'm more inclining to a deeper RoR roast. According to Scott Rao's explanation, the greater delta in the early stage of the roast the better developed of the bean, and my observation is in-line with his explanation. However, less-development is not necessarily bad, because IMHO it can either be compensated by longer roast time or reach to a higher drop temperature while retaining some acidity and high notes.
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Was having the same issue and getting pretty frustrated. After messing around with it for several hours, I decided to draw out a perfectly declining RoR in Artisan designer, then compare with my own roasts, mapping things out from room temp and then adding points from my profile after TPx2. I came to the conclusion that my RoR was dropping very rapidly at the beginning of the roast, which made it impossible to have it continue declining without stretching out the ramp phase. I went ahead and mapped out your second profile to give an example. Below that is an ideal 12 minute roast (or, at least, it's what I'm personally aiming for) to compare. Hope this helps somewhat, after a blind cupping I feel like it's definitely improved my own roasts.9Sbeans wrote:As can be seen, when I stretch the Dry and compress the MAI, the RoR get shallower. I could get a recognizable decreasing RoR in the 5-4 profile, but mathematically it will be flat in an 8-4 profile.
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Interesting. Here is a shot of my last Guji roast which shows the rapidly decling ROR during the end of the drying phase which jellybones spoke of. Next is a Yirg roast in which I tried to get as close to a 2:1 as I could and maintain the declining ROR. I did not increase gas at all throughout the roast and increased air at 6:28. A combination of lower charge temp, keeping gas off until 2:00, and then gas on high (5.2 kpa), made for a fairly smooth decline. I'm going to try this profile on the Guji except with a shorter finish ala 9Sbeans.