Dear Readers and experts alike.

I am getting good simple roasts with 4-5 minute sometimes 6 for decaf.

My ? is am I doing this correctly, fill bin and then POP roast or does one bring the chamber up to heat, say 250 degrees then add the "beans."?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Start with the popper cold. Slightly reduce your load to get roasts in the 7 to 9 minute range (less beans = slower roast -- watch out for stalling, more beans = faster roast -- watch out for charring). This is the optimum time range for an unmodified popper.

another_jim is right, like always. Less beans to make it slow. I wonder why. I think the air is maybe blown faster, as when you change the speed of the fan, it has the same effect.

But I think the best is to separate the heating circuit from the motor of the fan so you can control the heating. The problem is that the curve of temperature from a popper without modification will look like something heating fast at first, and then slowing down to get to a maximum temperature whereas other roaster will look more linear. Loading differently with change the overall speed of roasting, but not really the shape of the curve.

Do not take my advice as very professional as I start as well. In practice I tasted the difference, but it may be flowed by the fact I am also learning the whole process in the same time.

Yeah, if you modify the popper, there are a bunch of different ways to go, and the sky is the limit.

But if you are just getting your feet wet; it's best to just roast and learn how the beans change. With poppers, people are tempted to load them up -- this gets faster roasts with more beans, therefore, really good throughput, what's not to love? The problem is that a four to five minute roast isn't all that good. But even with an unmodified popper, an eight to nine minute roast will closely approximate the basic Sivetz fluid bed profile an give you a very acceptable cup.

Valentin has it right: As you reduce the load, the air flows faster over the same heat source, so drops in temperature. This slows down the roast.

To have even more flow at the beginning and then to linearize (or flatten) a bit the curve of the profile, it can be a good idea to stir with a chopstick.

ValentinDavid wrote:another_jim is right, like always.

Ain't that the truth

ValentinDavid wrote:But I think the best is to separate the heating circuit from the motor of the fan so you can control the heating.

My feeling is it's better to keep the fan constant for constant agitation and control the power input for the heat. Jim

Dear readers and experts.

Jim is correct, I am using the plain old popper approach, no mods or add ins.

I do have a very long extension cord i will apply and yes I have been LOADING UP the beans in order to get in and out of the roast cycle. 15 min and i am done.

I am going to try .5 the dose of beans and the extension cord trick...one trick pony since that's all i have.

Thanks you again again and I am trying to get to the 7-9 min roast but to no avail.

$$$ and sense say sometimes good enough is enough.

I have great success with Green Uganda, Zimbabwe (sp??) and mixed with 1/2 Guatamalean hard bean decaf.

The decaf smokes quicker and is a longer roast profile.

I do aggitate the beans a lot during the shake cycle.

I tried the add the beans at the 250 degree mark v. cold and it makes little difference.

My problem is the popper gets to 300-350 degrees pretty quick read: beans dark to snap crackle pop 2nd crack at about 5-6 min...then I pull them.

7+ and they char.

Thanks again for the consult.

I suggest only making 1 change at a time. If you decrease bean mass and add an extension cord you may have trouble completing the roast. Start with bean mass and see how it goes. If it is still too short, then add the cord.

1/2 the dose probably won't fly (i.e. it will flym, right out of the popper). Instead of the beans hardly stirring at the start, they should be moving steadily, but with great deliberation. Usually around 20 grams less will do the trick. A cheap 500 watt lighting extension cord will also slow the roast. This is electrically unsound, since the cord should drop enough voltage to feel warm to mildly hot to the touch, otherwise it isn't working -- just make sure the plugs don't get smoldering hot.

cafeIKE wrote:My feeling is it's better to keep the fan constant for constant agitation and control the power input for the heat. Jim

I agree. I am sorry, if what I said made think I was doing the opposite. And specially if the fan is off and the resistor is heating... you might just burn your house.

another_jim wrote:This is electrically unsound, since the cord should drop enough voltage to feel warm to mildly hot to the touch, otherwise it isn't working -- just make sure the plugs don't get smoldering hot.

I agree. The only way to do that is to have a cord that is used over what it is designed for. A popper is around 1200w. On 110V it will be 11A, on 230V it will be 5A. So take a cord that is under. But it means that you are also taking a risk of fire. Note that the fan will go slow if you drop the tension. This is due to the design of it. The resistor is cut in two parts, and the engine is plugged at one of the part so it takes around 20V. This is a continuous engine, which means the speed is function to the tension. If you reduce the tension, you reduce the speed, you might increase the temperature.

You also might discover that the temperature suddenly drops if you make the popper work more than 10 minutes. It will depend on the popper. There is a bi-metallic contact as security. And once it is dropping you cannot do nothing that wait for the popper to be cold. You can throw your batch away. You can disable the contact, but it is also a risk of fire. You cannot just weld it with tin as the temperature there is close to the melting point of tin. You need to attach it with a piece of cable.

Dear Readers RESULTS:

80 degrees outside

popper with and without cord on long safety extension with a fused plug and surge protector on all.

I am very EE safety oriented.

First roast 1/2 the beans - extension cord; from cold first crack 5 min. 7 min or right at it for the rice krispy crack and stop

Second roast even less beans, yes less mass, sits a bit v. lots of flying around, I tilt the popper...4 min first krack right at 6-7 for the final krack and roast - outcome: identical to first batch

Final batch temp of hopper is at 300 degrees already: large batch - I just threw them in...plug at end of extension is mildly warm - 3 min first krack right at 6 min for the final - outcome identical to batch 1 and 2.

temp at max krack was 350 degrees...

I compared to 2 day old beans under a magnifying glass and petry like dish lid: with a nice fine flashlight

Looks identical to me.

Outgassing for 48 hours we'll see.

I did about 15 oz of beans roasted weight.

All in all - honestly. the 3rd round smoked much more than the first or second. The first was the slowest and lower mass then 3rd - 2nd being a very small batch.

The extension cord may or may not make a diff. Next I am going to try it with a lower mass and no cord.

I do this outside on the patio in a controlled electrical environment: dedicated 20 amp enclosed outdoor outlet, heavy very sound YELLOW with fused end extension cord: 20 feet or more...

I think the bottom line is if I have to go through this rigamoro every 5 days...I want to go fast and be done.

I honestly can't so far taste a diff. but after 40 hours the beans come alive.

thanks for all the help.

Seems like a lot of work for a single espresso a day, but the lb roasted locally, min. purchase lasts too long and takes me weeks to finish...so I get really bad coffee near the end of a lb roasted by someone else.

I may switch back to buying it locally roasted and give up the popper experience.

It is quick but the smoke is ghastly.

I have to make it a point not to inhale that stuff; yuck.

Blend: Decaf hard been guat with 1/3 uganda and 1/3 zambia

for what it's worth the roasting experience takes only about 20-30 min for much pleasure

Not bad.

I will not be modifying or changing the appliance to sep. heater from fan as suggested.

I am a big fan of STOCK OEM. Safety first. I keep the Popper scrupulously clean.

I live near a bog/swamp and don't want a fire. I do keep everything controlled on a Block enclosed patio and standby switch on the outlet

Thanks, John

Thank you for your report. That is interesting.

I want to say that if you do not want fire, you should just not roast coffee.

Note I meant "voltage" when I said "tension". I have sometimes troubles with languages.

Dear Readers,

One last note from my notes. During the really cold season below say 50 degrees; the roast is slow.

I did try the no-extension cord but with a variac and the popper would not start up properly.

Once I did a very small test batch with just the popper cord and a low mass batch as was suggested - it seemed to take about as long 6 or so minutes.

One note: AC here is over 120 more like 125v

The heater is probably either 1200-1400w

My espresso heater is a 1Kwatt...

For what it's worth, my local roaster assisted me with a tour of his facility and a tutorial on roasting but not with a popper. He said ultimately and sooner than later the popper will slow down as it ages and roast slower and not get to as high a temp.

I am using a state of the art Wallmart Popper $12.

I think I will try a micro batch maybe the 20 grams suggested or so and see what I get.

anything over 7 minutes seems like it is not going to happen and above 350 degrees is pushing it.

If this helps clarify.

Thanks again, what a great learning environment.

John

Dear Readers,

FINALLY, I figured out a better way.

I reduced the load as Jim S. had suggested.

I used a very long extension cord.

I turned OFF the popper at the first sign of a first crack somewhere about 3 min. Let it sit for say 3-5 minutes it was still mighty hot; shook it up some to spread the heat and keep things going. I then started it back up again...it finished the first crack and a nice brown developed...then the second crack started I stopped about 8-10 min + / - a min due to OFF MODE.

This was the only way to slow things, this was for Caf. Uganda, Brazil and Zambia.

As for Decaf: Costa Rica strictly hard bean: still shorted same OFF CYCLE but less and about 8 min total for the batch...

Not sure it's any better it's resting today.

The overheat cycle came on 2 times during 3 batches so it's probably due to roasting at over 100 degrees outside and a lot of humidity.

I did open the unit and check it for the "MOD" regulating fan and temp heater...it was very clean inside and simple, just a AC feed to Heating coil and a AC to rectiifier via 4 diodes to DC Motor on fan.

I decided to clean and leave alone.

By the way it seems the unit is just fine with the mesh screen and nothing is inside the unit in terms of chaf or other bean parts.

Anyway...seems just cutting the fan and heat and stirring and rest for a few minutes then restarting the batch at about 300-350 degrees seems to provide a longer roast.

Thanks for reading.

John

I do not mean to rain on this, but why are you trying to extend your roast times? Were you unsatisfied with the taste of the coffee? The only reason I am asking is that unplugging the popper at first crack for any period of time is going to stall your roast, meaning that the chemical reactions set into motion within the beans that result in the particular flavor profile of your roast will essentially hit a brick wall, and once you turn your heat back on, you are already dealing with totaled beans.

I began roasting with a bottom screened popper, unmodded, and my roasts completed second crack in 3 minutes, so I understand your frustration, but let me suggest to you that, if the long extension cord and reduced batch sizes are insufficient for extending the roast time sufficiently, then unplugging and replugging are only useful for very short periods of time. The only point of the unplugging routine is to slow down the temperature increase of the beans, but the beans must continue to increase in temp the entire time, or your roast is screwed (stalled, that is). And the amount of time you will be able to but from this sort of approach is slim, like a minute or so.

Unplugging can be used with less risk early in the roast when you are trying to evenly warm your beans through, try more at this phase.

But, and I mean no offense by this, how can you seriously claim that you are too safety conscious to mod your popper? You said you were a big fan of stock OEM. Why dont you call your popper's customer service telephone number and tell them what you are doing with your safe OEM popper? Do you realize that from the first coffee roast, your warranty (if you had one) was voided, because roasting coffee in a popcorn popper is a safety hazard? Sweet Marias used to sell poppers, but had to stop (ie, popper maker threatened them legally) because the manufacturer did not want any issues with lawsuits popping up (pun intended).

If you want to be able to extend your roasts, and control them, then, in my experience, this is simply not possible with an unmodded popper. Which brings me back to my initial question, if you like how your coffee tastes with the fast roasts, then why extend it? If you are nervous about electrical hacks, try a different roasting method like a whirly pop, or buy a machine whose stock oem is for roasting coffee beans. (BTW, a few of these are nothing more than cheaply modded poppers in fancier casings themselves).

Dear Readers and Experts Alike

To answer Noah's ?'s:

1. Stock OEM, I meant not taking apart the popper and modifying it...I still clean and use it for Popcorn and it works great!

2. Yes warranty, the unit costs $15...it's 6months old and fine no problems...I am not selling it and would never claim it if it broke.

3. Why do this, to see the bean temperature, determine if it changes much with temp probe, it did slightly...it certainly slowed the roast a bit.

4. Beans came out a lot less dark and "crispy".

Overall after a few day(s) it seems the roast is very tasty so far this AM and continues...I was really trying to see if extending the roast time at all altered things I could "tell" were altered.

Just to see that's all and to take some advise from Jim on load, timing and length of roast min...these poppers really go and they can "run" away with the roast if one is not careful.

Hope this makes sense one amateur to the world...

It's fun and it's easy, it added about 30 min to the task but my espresso and latte's are very nice and very consistent with the grinder issue out of the way.

Thanks for asking very good ?'s.

John

It's a topic that makes for bad blood and lots of angry posts: To bear the tips and divots of outrageous home roasters or to take up arms against a sea of grassy swill and get something professional? (apologies to Shakespeare).

I think two things are always certain: Most of the time, the roast on proper, professional gear will come out better. But the big discoveries, the game changers, always come from doing odd things on odd set ups.

I think you reduce the likelihood of the first, and increase that of the second by doing comparative roasts. Don't just try one profile one week, and something else the next. At the very least take tasting notes, and compare them. At best, test your profiling attempts and other roasting variations side by side.

I know this is beginning to sound like an echo; I'll stop as soon as somebody posts some taste tests to accompany their profiling data.

In any case, since the rest of us don't have to drink the not so great coffee, and we all benefit from any discoveries, we should be cheering when people experiment with odd gear.

Jim, your post is totally correct, but it simply does not apply in this case. There is nothing new about what John is doing. I am just as outrageous an ignoramus as anyone else can be on this forum, and have tried the methods that the OP is advocating, to intense disappointment and frustration, that is why I replied. Unmodded poppers are probably the single most common starting point for those who want to "have fun" and experiment with home-roasting. For some, certainly not the majority, there is a drive to constantly improve and never be satisfied with ones results. Although this drive is not always obvious in a person, I think it is almost always the motivation behind posts to this particular forum. I hope John, however his roasting progresses, avoids the frustrations I had with unmodded poppery.

Dear Readers and Experts Alike,

Some comments...

I have so enjoyed the help from this forum. My experience was one of ignorance at first.

With the proper simple tools, grinder, restored proper espresso machine and a simple way to roast, I get good advise form my local roaster when I buy green, he is facinated by the facination with a POPPER roaster...I only drink a single shot a day or two maybe.

Triples are way too much.

anyway. I was only originally frustrated with the tamp, grinder issue, once I got that solved and then my heating element went in the espresso machine...all things back to status quo now...it's a fine simple activity with good results.

No worries.

Thanks for all your input...I might consider something else, but the delay roast from this AM 2 days or 3 days later now if just fine, in fact as good if not better than before...

6-8 min is about the best I can achieve.

Have a good day Noah, Yek Donya mamnoon