Oldest Green Coffee You Have Used - Page 2

by **dialydose** on Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:11 pm

Looks like the answer to some degree is it depends (which is appropriatley a common answer to coffee questions). It seems that dry processed present a bigger challenge and perhaps the answer is that you use em or lose em. I am always amazed at the parallels to wine and coffee. They are both such seasonal products. It is just a shame that they are both so limited in shelf life. You can extend the shelf life of both with proper treatment, but you must enjoy them during their "time". The big difference is that most wines (worth drinking) need some proper aging.

Living in Florida does cause some storage issues and I thought about putting them in the wine cellar. My only concern was the humidity. I like to keep the RH in the cellar at about 70%. I this would cause mold issues.

by **GC7** on Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:16 pm

Jason

Vacuum sealed beans don't/will not have humidity issues. Also, fresh beans will contain 12-14% moisture in them. Obviously mold on the surface of the beans is not a desirable trait unlike some late harvest grapes for wine.

I have a bit of an ongoing experiment between my wine cabinet (57*F) and my refrigerator for storage. Like Ken, I have noticed some older (but not vacuum sealed) room temperature stored ethiopian beans (Harrer and 2007 Idido Misty Valley) that seemed to go "flat" after initally bursting with bright fruit. I don't have freezer capacity to try colder temperatures but ideally a nice -80* Harris or Revco unit would be ideal for storage (utility/electrical costs aside).

by **dialydose** on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:39 pm

Vacuum sealed beans don't/will not have humidity issues. Also, fresh beans will contain 12-14% moisture in them. Obviously mold on the surface of the beans is not a desirable trait unlike some late harvest grapes for wine.

I have a bit of an ongoing experiment between my wine cabinet (57*F) and my refrigerator for storage. Like Ken, I have noticed some older (but not vacuum sealed) room temperature stored ethiopian beans (Harrer and 2007 Idido Misty Valley) that seemed to go "flat" after initally bursting with bright fruit. I don't have freezer capacity to try colder temperatures but ideally a nice -80* Harris or Revco unit would be ideal for storage (utility/electrical costs aside).

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't thinking of combining the two (cellar and vacumm sealed) but that makes perfect sense. I just hope the wine does not take offense to having to share the space

by **yakster** on Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:13 pm

Ken Fox wrote:It is a joke to think that these coffees will hold for a year with normal room temperature storage; you would be lucky to have them hold onto their particular differentiating qualities for 3 months. There is no one on this planet with taste buds who likes these sorts of coffee who can dispute this. These coffees are PERISHABLE.

I agree that coffee is perishable, and I noticed my favored Rwanda that I splurged and picked up a twenty pound sack of losing its distinctive brightness and flavor over the eighteen months I had it. I don't have room for a freezer, but my half gallon canning jars are stored in the garage fridge. A sore point with the Wife, but just one point in my Total Coffee Domination plan. [evil laugh]

-Chris

by **JohnB.** on Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:37 pm

Since I've only been home roasting since 3/09 I can't offer any long term data but all of my greens(currently 90 lbs+) are stored in one of our storage freezers. Some are vac bagged & some are still in the zip lock bags from SM. I've read Tom's posts on not freezing DP beans but I know from attending a recent Terroir open house that George vac bags & freezes all of their top shelf (Terroir) beans.

by **cafeIKE** on Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:45 pm

Ken Fox wrote:I hope that freezing works, because without freezing I can't see any way to preserve these coffees in an attractive state for more than 2 or 3 months after they first arrive at the suppliers.

Ken lives at 60,000 feet. Us mortals closer to sea level experience less degradation, but fruity Ken's beans don't get much past 180 days.

EDIT : I originally typed "Ken's style of fruity beans" and edited badly. :oops:

by **Ken Fox** on Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:57 pm

cafeIKE wrote:Ken lives at 60,000 feet. Us mortals closer to sea level experience less degradation, but fruity Ken's beans don't get much past 180 days.

by **farmroast** on Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:02 pm

JohnB. wrote: I've read Tom's posts on not freezing DP beans but I know from attending a recent Terroir open house that George vac bags & freezes all of their top shelf (Terroir) beans.

George is not much of a DP fan so Terroir will not have data on freezing them. DP beans I guess will be more vulnerable due to the residues on the surface of the beans but then again maybe it actually better protects the inside than a super polished bean. I've been happy enough with vacuum packing in glass canning jars and storing in a temp. stable dead freezer. I prefer glass over plastic. Canning jars are a bigger first investment but are easy to clean and reuse. I'm not sure if a combination of a porous ziplock and a frost-free fridge or freezer is a good idea. With the temp. and humidity swings in New England and living in a 250 year old house, jute or cotton just don't work well.

by **another_jim** on Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:33 pm

I've seen fading in three to four months worst case as well. I kept th Bonko in the jute bag Tom uses for 10 pound plus orders (lousy idea, btw), and it got perceptibly duller. But even packed in the heavy plastic bags, DP Ethiopian coffees seem to fade somewhat after six months. On the other hand, the Esmeralda, a very similar fruit bomb, but Panamanian and a WP, lasts out th year. I suspect it gets better handling before it arrives to my door. All in all, I think if you want a green coffee to reliably last out the year until the next crop, freezing may be a good idea.

Now, if you look at an importer's order sheet, you'll see the same coffee coming in over a stretch of three to four months. Some of this could be staggered harvests, but some will be warehousing at origin. Then the bean gets warehoused at the importers and then again at the roaster. So I figure a lot of the forgettable coffee I roast, sample and dump every year may have been quite memorable when it first left the mill.

Most coffee is a wake up fuel commodity, not justifying special handling. But I was mistaken when I made fun of George Howell when I first heard he was insisting on mylar packaging at origin, fast shipping, and freezing green coffee here. My experience now is if a coffee is really worth drinking, it is absolutely worth the extra dollar or so a pound to do all this. It's the only way to preserve the green's most volatile aromatics and to get close to the taste of the coffee freshly harvested and processed

by **JohnB.** on Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:59 pm

farmroast wrote:George is not much of a DP fan so Terroir will not have data on freezing them. DP beans I guess will be more vulnerable due to the residues on the surface of the beans but then again maybe it actually better protects the inside than a super polished bean. I've been happy enough with vacuum packing in glass canning jars and storing in a temp. stable dead freezer. I prefer glass over plastic. Canning jars are a bigger first investment but are easy to clean and reuse. I'm not sure if a combination of a porous ziplock and a frost-free fridge or freezer is a good idea. With the temp. and humidity swings in New England and living in a 250 year old house, jute or cotton just don't work well.

We've got one of those 250 year old New England homes also which is why my greens went in the freezer. I recall from George's lecture that he wasn't particularly fond of the primitive way some countries dry process beans. Still I recall reading one of Tom's posts where he stated he disagreed with George about freezing DP beans so they either discussed it or Tom must have read something George wrote on the subject.

As to the supposed temp fluctuations in a frost free storage freezer I haven't seen it. I keep mine set to 0°F & every time I've opened the door that is exactly what the thermometer sitting on the shelf reads.


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