Well, I attempted my first two roasts today using Sweet Maria's Monkey Espresso Blend. First attempt was using an 11 cup (88 oz) dog bowl with 8 oz coffee. It was 47°F outside and I had the bowl sitting on a concrete driveway, which probably didn't help. Set the HG to high and stirred away. Took about 12 minutes, but my method was clearly subpar. Uneven roast and not long enough. First crack was very sporadic and didn't build well to any crescendo. I tried brewing a shot after letting it rest a few hours and 15 min after grinding and it was very sour. I know it needs to rest a few days, but I'm pretty sure it was under done. I'd say it was light city roast at best. SM recommends Full City to Vienna for this blend.

I did a second batch with a HG and Bread Machine. I didn't have any thermometer or fancy venting. I just used the 'Dough' mode and had the HG set to high, with the snout near the top of the bread pan. Unfortunately, I had some technical difficulties. The paddle kept rising up off the shaft of the BM, so a lot of beans were not getting stirred. And I kept fighting the timer on my iPhone, which kept shutting off every 90 seconds or so. (I finally figured out I need to set my iPhone 'Auto Lock' to 'Never', and the display stays illuminated.) Again, it was 47°F outside, but the bread pan is fairly well insulated from the elements. I suspect I may have had too much heat with the HG at high. Due to my struggle with the timer and the stirring paddle, I had to estimate the time (about 10 minutes to conclusion of roast). First Crack definitely built to a crescendo and stopped. When it started smoking, I stopped the roast, then tossed the beans back and forth between two colanders to cool. Here's a picture. I'm not sure what roast level this is. I'm guessing Full City. I'm a total novice.



I haven't tried a shot yet and will probably wait a day or two.

I think I fixed my paddle so it won't rise as it stirs. I didn't want to use Loctite or adhesive, so I wrapped some aluminum foil around the shaft, pressed the paddle on, then lightly hammered it into place with a rubber mallet. I am hoping this provides enough friction to hold the paddle down during future roasts.

A few questions...

Do hand held IR Temperature guns work well for estimating bean temperature during the roast? Any specific recommendations? Or do I need to buy a thermocouple and snake the wire into the pan?

Should I use a lower temperature setting on the heat gun? I had it set to max the entire time, but the nose of the HG was about 5" above the surface of the beans.

Any other suggestions are welcome.

Thanks, Lou

lbdina wrote: A few questions...

Do hand held IR Temperature guns work well for estimating bean temperature during the roast? Any specific recommendations? Or do I need to buy a thermocouple and snake the wire into the pan?

Should I use a lower temperature setting on the heat gun? I had it set to max the entire time, but the nose of the HG was about 5" above the surface of the beans.

Any other suggestions are welcome.

Thanks, Lou

Overall your roast looks fine, but yes you really do need some kind of view at the bean temp. This will make you not only more consistent, but also flavors develop better when you get temps more "correct". Just my experience, anyway take a look here:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/store/roast- ... meter.html

Any of them will work fine, you don't need the digital one, and you can get other places, but this shows general stuff that's available, if you're worried more about accuracy of digital you can go Fluke, or with some type of datalogger. In any case I'd recommend drilling a hole in the Bread Machine. For the analog probes, drill all the way through the outside into the bread-pan. Just make sure the place you put it, the direction the paddle rotates won't tend to push the probe out, otherwise you'll have to secure it with more than friction.

As a ball-park, I would try these guidelines which gave me good roasts on my HG/BM for years:

1. max heat on the HG all the time, vary the height or distance from beans
2. aim HG between beans and pan, so you heat both beans and pan a bit
3. get some airflow over the top of the pan so that you don't have hot air backdraft into the HG and cut off it's high-temp safety
4. go with min distance to beans in the beginning of the roast until FC starts (around 1-3" from surface depending)
5. at FC raise height (how high depends on temp, if it's cold out now, you could try just a few inches, more if it's hot out)
6. keep temp of beans going up, but slowly until your final roast level, you can dump anytime and see the result, I try to do 3-5m of development time after 1C starts

Also, write down your times and temp, every 1m throughout the roast, that way you can compare notes and find out why a certain roast turned out well!

Good luck and have fun, it's a great hobby.

EspressoForge...thanks for the constructive and helpful advise. I'll implement all your suggestions. I'll look around for an IR non-contact temp gun or a direct contact thermometer and hook it up. I've got a lot to learn, but I have taken the first step. I'll try my first HG/BM roast tomorrow and each day thereafter to see how I did.

It's fun assembling a Rube Goldberg setup and getting real coffee (I hope) coming out the other end. Hopefully, I will get some good results early for encouragement and motivation.

Thx, Lou

I would suggest the non-IR approach. I don't think IR can be reliable enough to give you accurate bean temps. It might be fine for other applications, but for roasting you really want a solid probe in a constant location (to compare roast to roast easily).

The HG/BM is a very capable roaster, in fact, some of the home roasting competitions around here, one winner was a HG/BM user, and his wasn't too fancy. I think he didn't have anything other than raising and lowering by hand, a stopwatch and a candy thermometer.

lbdina wrote:Thank you for all your replies...they have been very helpful to this virgin roaster wannabe.

I've decided to roast outdoors (or in the garage) and I will generally want to roast more than 3 oz at a time, mostly for espresso and cappuccinos. Just to get started, I decided to try the heat gun / dog bowl method, since it is simple, and I will have to rely on my senses. Even if I destroy the first few batches, I figure I will learn a lot this way. I'll watch for color and smoke, listen for 1c and 2c, and use my sniffer throughout the process.

I ordered the 8 lb Espresso sampler pack from Sweet Maria's, since I want to start with something generic while learning. Hopefully, it is a fairly good, forgiving blend under my heavy, inexperienced hand. I bought a Wagner HT3500 heat gun at Home Depot, since it seems to have plenty of power, two fan speeds, and adjustable temperature (250-1350°F). I also bought two stainless dog bowls at Petco (88 0z and 50 oz), figuring I will probably want different sized bowls for different batch sizes. I probably won't receive the beans for at least 4 or 5 days, but will report my progress, or lack thereof, after a few attempts.

I may graduate to the full HG/BM setup in time, but I figured this was an easy, inexpensive way to play and learn. A heat gun sounds like the best approach for my needs. We'll see!

Lou

That was my exact same logic and I bought the same heat gun and also 8lbs espresso sampler from sweet Maria's. Sadly I'm still hand stirring with a stainless steel bowl as I research BM mods and look for a viable option in the thrift stores. Your bread machine roast looks beautiful congrats. Regarding the HG I have had trouble w scorching on high but that's likely due to my hand stirring. I have read that the high fan speed may actually be cooling the beans but the highest "low" setting doesn't seems to work as well. I'm eager to hear more about your technique and results since I'll be stealing them I haven't roasted the espresso monkey yet. Btw don't forget to use your cool setting when you're done to prolong the HG lifespan. Also you may want to look into some of the vaccuum cooling stations people have built to rapidly cool your beans--beats a collander

I roasted with a HG/DB for a while and got very consistent results. I liked the direct manual control of heat gun in one hand and spoon in the other.

I used a long handled wooden spoon to stir, and had a long stem turkey fryer thermometer attached to it so that the probe was in the bean mass the whole time I was stirring. The large dial was easy to glance at periodically. I can't remember, but at first I think I used zip ties to attach the thermometer, and then small hose clamps once I decided that it worked pretty well.

EspressoForge...

I have to figure out how to arrange a contact thermometer and what type. I'm wondering if a dial thermometer drilled thru the machine will be awkward and difficult to view quickly while I am busy trying to roast. I'd have to remember to pull it out before removing the bread pan too. I suspect a digital readout with a thermocouple would be better, since I could place the readout making it plainly visible. How does one attach a thermocouple, and where? Could I snake it down the inside or outside of the bread pan and cement it or solder it to the bottom/inside of the pan? And how does one attach it so it stays in the right spot and doesn't get mangled? These are my thoughts as I ponder the best solution. I'm sure dozens of methods have been tried and I am hoping to learn from others' successes. Can one get a stainless sleeve or probe to cover the end of the thermocouple for durability, and will this be as responsive and accurate?

Mauljer...

You don't want to take too much advice from me at the present time-I'm brand new at this! My roast looked pretty good, but I can't say a lot of the flavor, at least so far. It may be better after a few days. I'll be glad to share what I learn, but I'm just beginning the learning curve. I bought a Farberware bread machine for $6 at a thrift store. It had a non-stick teflon pan, which made me nervous (toxic fumes), so I removed the coating. I tried by hand at first, but that was insane. A power drill, with a few different wire brushes did the job quickly and effectively. I used a Work-Mate bench to gently clamp the bread pan steady while I worked. I washed it with soap and water after I was done and it's clean as a whistle now, down to the bare aluminum. I'm not sure it was necessary, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

My very first roast was using the dog bowl. I wanted to try that just to educate my senses - sight, sound, smell. My roast was uneven (poor technique) and it was very under roasted. I'm wondering if my bowl was too large for the amount I roasted (8 oz beans in an 88 oz bowl). Part of the learning curve. I suspect even my first bread machine roast was ended a bit prematurely, but I'm not certain. If I get my act together and end up with some great roasts, I'll be glad to share.

Jtrops...

Thanks for the suggestion on the turkey fryer thermometer. I'll have to check that out.

Lou

lbdina wrote:EspressoForge...

I have to figure out how to arrange a contact thermometer and what type. I'm wondering if a dial thermometer drilled thru the machine will be awkward and difficult to view quickly while I am busy trying to roast. I'd have to remember to pull it out before removing the bread pan too. I suspect a digital readout with a thermocouple would be better, since I could place the readout making it plainly visible. How does one attach a thermocouple, and where? Could I snake it down the inside or outside of the bread pan and cement it or solder it to the bottom/inside of the pan? And how does one attach it so it stays in the right spot and doesn't get mangled? These are my thoughts as I ponder the best solution. I'm sure dozens of methods have been tried and I am hoping to learn from others' successes. Can one get a stainless sleeve or probe to cover the end of the thermocouple for durability, and will this be as responsive and accurate?

Lou

I used a shielded probe thermocouple with my HG/BM, drilled all the way through the outside into the breadpan. It's a bit of a pain to occasionally forget to pull it out when you go to dump, but when the pan doesn't come out usually you remember.

I liked the solid probe better than the idea of a wire only TC, it not only helped to smooth out the graph on the computer, but I thought it would be more durable with beans knocking around it after a while. The single wire TCs are very cheap, and you could try to fix it to the breadpan in some way you mentioned, or by drilling a small hole and clipping the other side and top.

Thanks, EspressoForge. Your help has been invaluable.

I have good news to report...This afternoon, I pulled a few shots from yesterday's HG/BM roast (my first) and it was really quite good (to my semi- inexperienced tastebuds). I find it very drinkable as straight espresso. I didn't get the grind and dose perfectly dialed in, but I got fairly close and I was pleasantly surprised. It wasn't overly sour or bitter and seemed pretty well balanced. Yesterday, I was thinking the roast looked pretty good, but probably would be suitable only for land fill. Letting it rest a full day worked magic. Tomorrow, I'll make a few cappuccinos for me and my wife and see how it holds up in milk. This is very encouraging, especially for a rank beginner.

I was surprised at how much of an adjustment I had to make to my grinder using ultra fresh-roasted coffee. I had to use a much coarser grind on my fresh home roast compared to the less fresh coffee I have been buying and freezing. I'm assuming this is because the fresh coffee has more moisture, oils and density. BTW, the fresh roast had lots of good crema.

That's enough caffeine for the day...I'm buzzing'!

Lou

Is there an optimum or maximum recommended batch size when roasting with a bread machine and heat gun? My first batch, which turned out well, was with 8 oz of green beans. I chose 8 oz arbitrarily because I wanted to be able to try two separate roasts from a single pound of green beans. I'd like to roast larger batches eventually, after I gain a little more experience, but I don't want to overload the machine or compromise roast quality. I'm guessing there is probably an optimum range for batch size.

Thx, Lou