Is there a generally agreed upon minimum time between the start of the first crack and the end of the roast?

I have seen 3:00 quoted in a Boot article, and 2:30 shared by a local commercial roaster. I have been using shorter times (~2:00) lately and the results seem good for brewed coffee.

Thanks

Michael

There are plenty of people on these forums who are more qualified to answer your question, but I'll take a first shot. There is no agreed upon minimum time that I'm aware of. Nordic roasters have been pushing the envelope on shorter development time. Take a look at this thread: Nordic Roasters Forum, roasting presentation and roasting exercise

I would expect that a number of variables would relate to minimum acceptable development time, including: desired roast level, type of roaster, profile used, subsequent rest time, personal preference, etc.

Why not do some experimenting and see what works for you?

one lump or two? wrote:Is there a generally agreed upon minimum time between the start of the first crack and the end of the roast?

I have seen 3:00 quoted in a Boot article, and 2:30 shared by a local commercial roaster. I have been using shorter times (~2:00) lately and the results seem good for brewed coffee.

Thanks

Michael

Your knowledge seems up to date.

You can end a roast just before or at the start of the first crack and get a mild, tea like beverage (it's interesting, but it doesn't quite taste like coffee). Roasts stopped a little later, that is, early in the first crack, tend to be both grassy and sour. How long one has to go in order to avoid this is currently a matter of intense discussion. One fact that seems fairly well confirmed is that the slower the ramp the up to the first crack, the sooner one can end the roast after it starts without getting grassy, thin, or sour flavors.

The motivation for doing these early drops is the belief that the caramel flavors that develop after the first crack ends interfere with the full appreciation of the coffee. I don't think this statement should be accepted as gospel; instead, I think these ultra-light roasts are a particular style of roasting where the bready Maillard flavors coming from the lengthened time to the first crack are often far more annoying than the caramels that develop later.

Plenty of people here have had success with very short development times (just over a minute) for ultra-light roasts. I'd point to this profile here as pretty indicative of what I think of as a really short 1c-end time: Roast and Learn Together - August 2014

And I'd check the example Nordic profiles here, from some of the most respected names out there: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http ... _roast.pdf

another_jim wrote:
The motivation for doing these early drops is the belief that the caramel flavors that develop after the first crack ends interfere with the full appreciation of the coffee. I don't think this statement should be accepted as gospel; instead, I think these ultra-light roasts are a particular style of roasting where the bready Maillard flavors coming from the lengthened time to the first crack are often far more annoying than the caramels that develop later.

Amen, Brother Jim! I generally look for something over 2 minutes when test roasting. As my customers and I age it becomes increasingly important that what I sell looks, smells and tastes like coffee.


Alan

Thank you for all the useful replies and links. I do plenty of experimenting, but it is nice to have some general guidelines.

another_jim wrote:...One fact that seems fairly well confirmed is that the slower the ramp the up to the first crack, the sooner one can end the roast after it starts without getting grassy, thin, or sour flavors.

The motivation for doing these early drops is the belief that the caramel flavors that develop after the first crack ends interfere with the full appreciation of the coffee. I don't think this statement should be accepted as gospel; instead, I think these ultra-light roasts are a particular style of roasting where the bready Maillard flavors coming from the lengthened time to the first crack are often far more annoying than the caramels that develop later.

Whether you end up with a lot of Maillard flavors depends on the execution. This style of roast works best, in my experience, as a slow-start, fast-finish profile, in which a slow initial phase is followed by a fast ramp through the Maillard zone (I aim to spend no more than 3 minutes from 300F to FC-start). For best results with a nordic approach, it also seems to be helpful to apply more heat than usual during the shortened development window, so that you avoid the unpleasant flavors associated with underdevelopment. When done properly you can get very clear acidity and high aromatic notes, with a simple sugar sweetness instead of caramels, and a light body. This is not a style that suits all coffees well, nor is it always what I am in the mood for, but it can be a nice change of pace.

But to turn back to what the OP was asking: Except when I am trying to do this nordic style, I tend to think that 2:15 of development time, plus or minus 15 second or so, is usually going to give me a good city roast for filter brewing purposes. I generally aim to add about 20-25F to the bean temperature over this window. But I like a bit more time, and a darker finish, for espresso.

[creative nickname] wrote:Whether you end up with a lot of Maillard flavors depends on the execution. This style of roast works best, in my experience, as a slow-start, fast-finish profile, in which a slow initial phase is followed by a fast ramp through the Maillard zone (I aim to spend no more than 3 minutes from 300F to FC-start).

I'll have to try that.

Nice thread Michael. I'm interested in you mentioning in the first post about how it's working out for drip coffee. All my neighbors drink the stuff, and often want beans from me, but I only try my roasts for espresso. What do y'all think about this question when it's focusing on drip vs espresso? Or is the ramp to first more noticeable for making awesome drip?

[creative nickname] wrote:Whether you end up with a lot of Maillard flavors depends on the execution. This style of roast works best, in my experience, as a slow-start, fast-finish profile, in which a slow initial phase is followed by a fast ramp through the Maillard zone (I aim to spend no more than 3 minutes from 300F to FC-start).

Can you elaborate on how you control such a fast ramp through the Millard zone? To go through in under 3 minutes makes me feel you must have some amazing control to be able to build momentum for the heat and then taper it off by FC to draw out some development time.