How do you use cupping to improve roasts?

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Unrooted
Posts: 279
Joined: 8 years ago

#1: Post by Unrooted »

How do you know what direction to take your roast after cupping? Do you have a roast specifically for cupping?

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Boldjava
Posts: 2765
Joined: 16 years ago

#2: Post by Boldjava »

Advice will differ. Approach with open mind. Find your own style. Coffee folks can be rigid.

I begin all washed coffees at around 1st crack plus 2:20 unless coffee says differently. Cup. The coffee advises me.

Too much roast character? Back off accordingly. Fruits/flavors/nuances need more development? Add 10 seconds.

Cup and re-cup. Coffee will move around on you.
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LMWDP #339

pShoe
Posts: 357
Joined: 11 years ago

#3: Post by pShoe »

There is a specific roast for cupping, in general. That roast is to evaluate the coffee though, not the roast. Here's the way I used cupping. Before I start, I'll note I did not use standard cupping methods. I have 3 small clever drips that I would brew simultaneously.

I tried a bunch of different coffees (region and processing) over the course of a year or so, and cupped them blind to determine what I liked the most. For both brewed and espresso, I routinely determined I was really fond of a certain region and processing method.

With my preferred coffee bean, I roasted to different roast levels, and with different temps and times to get to that degree. Once again, I cupped the results blind and found what I liked for brewing and espresso. Worth noting, I did not do crazy temps or timing, I stayed within commonly acceptable times and temps for my roaster. I found that I became a much better roaster during this phase.

Anyway, this was my method to hone in on what I liked, which improved my roasts as well. I might get bored of my current preference, and have to restart the whole process again. Kinda looking forward that day actually... it was a fun process.

N3Roaster
Posts: 116
Joined: 12 years ago

#4: Post by N3Roaster »

If you're doing a standard cupping roast, there are certainly clues there for how you might want to approach the coffee for drinking, but there isn't really a neat way to wrap that up in a way that's general to all coffees and all preferences. It just takes a lot of practice. Using cupping to evaluate different roasts of the same coffee helps you get that experience faster, though. My usual methods aren't really applicable to home roasting, but a while back I did an exercise that most can probably accomplish.

Background: I tend to break up how I think about roasts into the amount of time spent in different temperature ranges that are tied to easily observable physical changes in the coffee: 1) time from when the coffee starts to change color from green to yellow until when the coffee starts to change color from yellow to brown (about 30 degrees F on my equipment, your measurements may vary), 2) end of the previous range to the start of first crack (50 degrees), 3) start of first crack to either the end of the roast or the start of 2nd crack (up to 50 degrees), 4 if applicable) start of second crack to the end of the roast. For this exercise I ended all batches immediately at the start of 2nd crack, but you can change this up as you please and adapt this to the roasting styles that you're interested in exploring. Just be consistent about it until you're ready to start exploring the impact of different end points.

Start with something that's in the middle of what you can comfortably achieve with your roaster and consider that your baseline for all of the other roasts, then for each of the ranges, try roasting a batch that goes through that range faster or slower while keeping the duration of the other ranges as close as you can to your baseline roast. A couple batches in each direction for each range is a good starting point, but if you want to spread this out over time you can take one range at a time. It'll be easier to digest the cupping results if you evaluate the variation on each range separately. Good record keeping is essential here. If you screw up a batch, don't worry too much about that. Just make a note of what happened and stick it on the cupping table anyway.

For evaluation, a form can be helpful for directing your observations. I was using the beta of the RG roast evaluation form (which appears to no longer be available at the link that I had for that), but regardless of form I'd advise against putting too much stock in the scores. For this exercise you're not really looking for "what's better?" but more "how does this change?" Pay attention to intensities and flavors, take lots of notes. If you repeat this with a few coffees you'll find some ways that the coffee changes are pretty consistent, but also that your preference with different coffees might not be the same. What you like best in an Ethiopian coffee probably isn't going to be what you like best in a coffee from Sulawesi.

From here, when you're using a new coffee, you'll have that experience to draw on so you take your best guess with the coffee and maybe you get something that you're happy with, but maybe you'll think you can do better. What do you want to draw out? What do you want to diminish? You'll have experience with different profiles to draw on to take a guess about how you want to change the next batch. Try it, taste it, keep good notes both on how you roasted the coffee and how it tasted.

Finally, you might eventually settle into a place where you're doing pretty much the same thing because that's what you like. Eventually you'll run into a coffee where that just doesn't work for you. When that happens, don't be afraid to challenge what you know and try something else.

Chargerswin
Posts: 24
Joined: 8 years ago

#5: Post by Chargerswin »

Well you don't cup coffee for roast indicators? You drink coffee for roast indicators. Make a pot or pour over and taste it to see what adjustments should be attempted with your roaster. As Dave says let the coffee tell you. Eliminate as many variables as you can.

cupping involves some visuals, aroma, and taste to evaluate a coffee. Some people like to make a french press, eliminate the aroma... what have you, and call it cupping...trust them at your own peril. If you don't have aroma notes or scores and if the the cupping involves some other method of brewing coffee then it just simply is some guy/girl making coffee.

I can't remember where but some company sells pour-overs as a cupping kit. I know it's crazy ;D
Sonofresco roasters are better than yours ;).