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Hottop P question - want to avoid a stall.

Postby Italyhound on Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:49 pm

I am just beginning my roasting really - using a hottop P and am ready to graduate from the 'auto' program. I have been using the same beans for some time to learn about them. Metropolis Greenline.

I copied the 'starter' espresso roasting profile in the hottop manual and instructions suggest to dial off the heat when FC starts rolling and restart it after a pause following FC - get into second crack until the end. (I don't have a bean probe in just yet to measure bean temp.)

Is there anything I need to watch out for to avoid stalling the roast since the fan will stay on while the heat stays off and I cant control that on the P model?

Hope that makes sense? Im still startin' here.

Thanks so much! :D

Evan
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Postby Randy G. on Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:02 pm

The "P" was not designed with in-roast user control in mind; at least that was my impression when they first sent me one, and that impression has not changed significantly. It is best suited for someone who wants fresh coffee but doesn't want to have to think once a profile is chosen and the "START" button is pressed. It doesn't mean that you can't get good coffee from it. Me? I am a hands-on sort of guy (a much prefer a manual tranny to an auto tranny). The best thing with the "P" is to develop profiles that best suit your desires. As you know from reading the manual, any saved profile can be modified and then saved again, so you can experiment with small changes to that profile,

The problem with the "P" am:
1 - the heater control is binary. You can have it 100% on, or 100% off, and that's it.
2 - The three minute segments give you little time to manipulate the roast, and once a segment passes you can't recover that time.

One trick is that when you get close to a temperature you want to maintain, pull the rear filter up to allow more air flow through the roaster. This will decrease the rate of increase of the temperature, and as soon as the filter is lowered, the heating element will be able to more rapidly increase the temperature in the roast chamber.

But all of this is why, when an enthusiast asks in this forum, The "B" model is universally recommended.
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Postby Italyhound on Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:45 pm

Thank you Randy.

I should have purchased the "B" but I had mistakenly thought that one was programmable and one was not. My fault - and it cost me extra $$ too.

I am at this point in the netherland between button pusher and roasting geek - far closer to the former. If I need to, I can also swap out the panel to the B but first want to see if I reach the point where I need to do just that. For now, that slight manipulation will keep me moving forward along my learning curve. I have been getting 'decent' results so far but 1C and 2C are so close together that I wanted to explore teasing them apart.

I very much appreciate the reply and your website as well, Randy.

best

Evan
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Postby Juliet Lima on Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:15 pm

Hi Evan,

Another consideration might be installing a bean temperature probe. This will give you the ability to control the roast between first and second crack using the filter raising method as suggested by RandyG.

Lifting the filter by about half and using fan setting between 2 and 3 at/after first crack, allows the period between first and second crack to increase up to 3-4 minutes....all the time montoring a rising bean temperature.This happens even though the roaster temperature appears to slow or "stall"

Much would depend on the temperature immediately surrounding the roaster.

Best wishes with your new roaster...once mastered it will give you delightful roasts.

JL
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Postby Randy G. on Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:21 am

Adding bean temp the monitor through bean chute loading cover:
http://www.frcndigital.com/coffee/HowToHottopTemp.html
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Postby Italyhound on Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:08 am

Thank you. I will order those parts to install the probe ... today.

Evan
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Postby JohnB. on Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:07 am

Take a look through this thread before you decide where you want to install the BT probe/TC as there are better options then the bean chute cover:
Installing ET and BT probes in a Hottop

I started with the P model but ended up swapping in the B control panel so I could have much better control of the roast.
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Postby Randy G. on Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:51 pm

Better options? Possibly. But the new sensor gives very dependable readings, and it is very consistent from batch to batch. While it may not be an accurate bean temperature, that is extremely difficult to get in a small-batch home roaster. You can put six different probes in and get six different readings. Because of the low depth of the bean mass, the proximity of the heating element to the drum, and airflow through the drum, moving a probe just a couple of millimeters will give varied readings. But the new probe sits far enough in the bean mass for the entire roast that I do not think that having another reading is going to be all that useful. For example, if first crack always starts at the same displayed temperature on the control panel (and in my experience it does within maybe +/-1F) then it doesn't matter what the displayed number is. Except for some preliminary testing I have not used a bean probe with the new model (updated thermocouple). Just one data point.
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Postby JohnB. on Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:00 pm

A couple months ago I ran several test roasts in a new B-2 after installing the same style Omega T/Cs I've used in my HT-B for several years. The reading from the new style HT-B-2 factory probe sensor was a good 25*F lower then the calibrated BT T/C I installed. The readings (1C,ect.) I got from the Omega t/cs in the new roaster were right in line with the readings I see in mine & what I see posted from others using accurate t/cs. I found the HT probe readings to be pretty much useless for accurate tracking of BT or ET & it was slow to respond.
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Postby Nik on Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:25 pm

My suggestion to Italyhound is to pay close attention to John Borella's thermocouple installations. I used the probe in the chute door method in my first Hottop but used John's system in the second one. Huge benefit to have instant Evironmental and Bean temperature readings. The ability to control environmental temperature will eliminate your concern in stalling.

Mine is the "B" model.
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