Martin wrote:For those posting here, I'd love for you to try an experiment: Set aside the BM, find a suitable roasting bowl, experiment with batch sizes and stirring/wanding technique. Rely on your skills and knowledge for a half-dozen roasts, and report back whether there is loss, gain, or no change in your roasts.

I'd like to learn this technique, and use it as a simple and portable way to demonstrate roasting while away from home.

Given your expertise and experience, could you recommend a specific bowl shape/size and amount of greens, to get me started on the right foot? Any recommended videos or photos would be great also. Googling turns up a lot of bad examples, I'm hoping for some good ones.


Thank you,

-bill

I've done the manual agitation, and found that's what it was. Agitation. My typical roast is altogether not scientific, and not recorded or documented in any formal way. I like being able to preheat, load, close the lid, set the heatgun control to "B", then go in the other room and play the guitar for 4 or 5 minutes, come back, inhale the aromas, check the temp & time, peek at the beans, set the control to "A" and play the drums for a couple of more minutes, come back to the garage, inhale, and begin paying close attention for the rest of the roast.

Sometimes I write times and temps down - usually I don't. When I used manual stirring and/or held the heatgun myself, my part-time ADD kicked in and rushed the roasts.

Bill, go get a SS dog bowl fit for a Mastiff and a bamboo (or wooden) spoon. Dump in some Sumatra , start stirring, and hit them with the heat with your other hand. Every couple of minutes switch hands. A quick youtube search will yield more than enough vids.


CHAD

seedlings wrote: Dump in some Sumatra

Haha, you read my mind. I plan on using my remaining Aceh for the experiment.

kupe wrote:Haha, you read my mind. I plan on using my remaining Aceh for the experiment.

<snickers>...funny, though I didn't mean it that way - Bill will get it, though. Nuttin wrong with the Sumatra.

CHAD

In the past I've really liked Sumatras, but this was the first time I've roasted one and the results weren't great. I figure I can safely try it with another method with minimal risk for disappointment.

I have no problem with Martin's argument that he can obtain high quality roasts with HG/DB. I tried the dog bowl before switching to the bread machine and obtained good results after half a dozen batches. But I simply don't like stirring the beans in the dog bowl. Except for the first 3-4 minutes, I roast with the lid up on the bread machine, and let the bread machine act as the stirrer. I focus my manual control on the heat gun itself and vary its distance to the beans to follow the desired roast profile. From my perspective, the BM does a better job of stirring the beans than I can.

Today's market offers some very capable off-the-shelf, plug-and-play roasters. OTOH, some people, such as posters in this thread, have the skills and interest to cobble together a 2nd hand appliance and spare parts that will do about the same thing for $ hundreds maybe thousands less. I admire Sherman's roaster. But my aspirations are simply not that high. My own trajectory has been to start with the most basic elements, add some enhancements, modify practice, etc., until I got to a point where I started wondering about the added value of what I was piling onto the process.

I certainly don't want to redirect (hijack) the thread away from HG/BM and the challenge to build a better roaster. I'm simply checking in with some encouragement for those who (like myself) feel intimidated about the scope of HG/BM carried to its destiny. I can't make any claim other than having very good control over very good roasts very simply. Experience counts.

For example, I built a stand (and then, a hanger) for the HG, but I lost the ability to ease off the heat if I wanted to extend between 1st and 2nd c. The most powerful HG variable is distance from the bean mass. Lose that, and you lose some control (and add potential for error.) I propped up the HG over a BM, but was I really going to set a timer and walk away? That seems like a bad idea.

I tried all manner of bowls, but returned to a particular DB shaped like /\_/\ (all described ad nauseum in many CG posts.) There's a bit of a learning curve to stirring, but that bowl + a stick (not a whisk, or slotted spoon, or hand-held mixer . . .) seems to be best. I like to wand the HG mostly around the perimeter of the bowl. I sort-of invented a number of bean-cooling devices. but came across an oversize metal mesh picnic plate cover. 4 or 5 tosses in the air, beans are cooled and chaff is gone (not recommended for the kitchen.)

Manipulating bowl size, bean mass/volume, are useful variables. The upper limit for, say a 64 oz DB might be (for me) around 8-9 oz. Anything more and I'd have to start being careful not to stir beans out of the bowl. I can say with confidence that the ratio matters, but can't presume to spin out a guiding theory. (I could, and have, but too many elements still sound contradictory ) Informally, I'm inclined to keep the beans close to a max for particular bowl. +/- 32 oz = 5 oz beans; 64 oz = 7-9 oz beans; 96 oz = 8=12 oz. But these change all the time.

Press on.

Martin wrote:Not strange at all. I'm suggesting that HG/BM roasters examine 1)how accurate is your data; 1)how consistently can you make use of it; and 3)whether, with a "reasonable" amount of practice you can do just as well without extra mechanics.

Finally, there's the matter of opportunity costs. The attention I gave to (supposedly accurate) empirical data and consistent stirring meant that I could not follow the progress of the beans as carefully. (As a beginning roaster I also kept careful roasting notes, records of bean purchases, yadda yadda. That takes a whole lot of time and attention, and I rarely--maybe never?--went back to all that data.)

A timer, color change, onset of crack(s), smell, and more intuitively, speed of ramp is about all the data I can manage. If I want more, if I want to be more like a pro, I'd buy myself a HotTop or even something more robust to take care of my 1.5 lbs a week. But the economics aside, if you find something inherently satisfying about keeping your face inside the roast, watching it happen, and responding in real time to what you think is going on, spend some more time hand stirring with no thermometer. When I found that my sense of the roast disagreed with my pre-determined profile, I found it more useful to go with my senses.

Fair enough. As you can probably tell from my posts, the only real enhancement I have is the bread maker. I still roast by smell, sound and feel for the most part. I would like to get more feedback from temp, etc. I will continue to argue that the bm is a great "enhancement"...my arm tells me so after I roast

Great points, Martin. For $20 you can add a variable triac control to your heatgun and stand, then leave it on the stand.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43060

I for one sure hope nobody discovers the "best" way to roast coffee

CHAD

Entering this thread was bad luck for me. My heatgun fan died yesterday. It was a Milwaukee, and usually they're pretty tough, but I guess that I was getting the innards too hot. Some of the wiring was exposed inside. Had to finish off a pound of beans with the Poppery--after an aborted mid-roast. It was Guat Huehue and wasn't too bad this morning despite the roastus interruptus. I'll pick up another heat gun.