Fast roasts: yay or nay? - Page 2

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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hankua
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#11: Post by hankua »

Your probably getting different development on the outside vs inside, which can work out great; so long as the inside doesn't end up underdeveloped. It is fun to go outside the normal parameters of roast profiling, and get pleasantly surprised.

thepilgrimsdream
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#12: Post by thepilgrimsdream »

I feel as if my longer roasts have more body/mouthfeel but lose some sweetness and sparkle.

I've settled around 12:30 for most espresso roasts. I drag my Brazil's out a little longer and my Ethiopians usually quicker.

wearashirt (original poster)
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#13: Post by wearashirt (original poster) »

Ryantheroaster wrote:Hopefully it isn't taboo around here to revive 30 day old threads, but I find this one particularly interesting and would love for the dialogue to continue. Are you still getting fast finish times? Have you experimented with extending the times? Comments on the previous posters 2nd crack hypothesis?

:mrgreen:
I recently gained extra wisdom, which I had lightly snubbed as it's already discussed in these fora. The wisdom is: long developing time i.e. time between 1c and 2c 20%-30% of total roast time.

It came from a cafe owner, whose two filter coffees I found really great, in a European city no less. It's El Magnifico in Barcelona. :) His "20%-30%" may just be his rule of thumb, since he had about 10 different origins on shelf. I actually emailed sprudge wishing to write a litle feature for them.

Currently siding on 10 mins+ roast time with long developing time. But that 6 minute roast that i nailed was really reaally good....but it changed quickly on the 2nd week which got me scratching my head....

I agree with a few voices on HB -- until systematic testing is done, no conclusions can be fully accepted!

Ryantheroaster
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#14: Post by Ryantheroaster replying to wearashirt »

I don't think there's anything set-in-stone regarding anything to do with coffee. Which makes threads like this particularly interesting. It would be cool if you could replicate your 6min profile, then try the same bean with the longer development time and compare the differences. I think every bean will roast a little different, but I have read a sounding chorus of people who agree that the development time you speak of is crucial to the overall flavor. My personal experimentation are yet to commence.

wearashirt (original poster)
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#15: Post by wearashirt (original poster) »

Ryantheroaster wrote:but I have read a sounding chorus of people who agree that the development time you speak of is crucial to the overall flavor. My personal experimentation are yet to commence.
James Freeman mentions developing time in his book, as well as Tim Wendelboe in his videos all around Youtube.

I think a lot of brick-and-mortar cafes with amazing interior design and food menu, are getting gung-ho over light roasts. A cafe in Munich served me some awfully underroasted coffee while the barista was describing "hazelnuts, almond"...and all I could taste was the unpleasant scratch of tasteless so-called nutty coffee. Coffee didn't really justify the Loring behind them.

Meanwhile, the Barcelona cafe I mentioned used a "Vittoria" roaster, which doesn't seem to have a website. His model is an external heating chamber passing hot air into the drum. "No flame touches the drum" said the roaster.

DaveC
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#16: Post by DaveC »

thepilgrimsdream wrote:I feel as if my longer roasts have more body/mouthfeel but lose some sweetness and sparkle.

I've settled around 12:30 for most espresso roasts. I drag my Brazil's out a little longer and my Ethiopians usually quicker.
Funny enough I did a test about 3 weeks ago as I have a new roaster for reviewing. I used Ethiopian Harrar Longberry, both taken to the same roast level. I'm obviously roasting lots of different coffees not just those 2 roasts.

1. Fast roast around 12-13m
2. Slow roast around 16m

The fast roast was funky and lacking in Blueberry, not so good. The slow roast was rounder richer, huge blueberry notes and a much better coffee as espresso or americano.

in general I am not a fan of overly fast roasting (or overly light roasting) and I don't think it brings out the best in any coffees. It seems to be a trend since the introduction of international roasting competitions, but they are not resting the coffees for 7 days and drinking them as espressos etc.., they are simply cupping them.

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mcwresearch
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#17: Post by mcwresearch »

I would recommend you experiment with changing the lengths of individual phases of the roast while keeping the others the same. For example, for one roast, if your normal roasting time is 9 minutes with three equal phases (3 minutes drying, 3 minutes maillard, 3 minutes development), try stretching one phase by 60 seconds to see how that affects the cup.

Document each roast's profile and pair that data with cupping data from the coffee you roasted.

To answer your original question "Fast roasts; yay or nay" I'd say it all depends on what you prefer as a flavor. Nordic roasts are popular and are relatively fast, while dark roasts are also popular and are relatively slow. There is no right or wrong answer.

thepilgrimsdream
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#18: Post by thepilgrimsdream »

DaveC wrote:Funny enough I did a test about 3 weeks ago as I have a new roaster for reviewing. I used Ethiopian Harrar Longberry, both taken to the same roast level. I'm obviously roasting lots of different coffees not just those 2 roasts.

1. Fast roast around 12-13m
2. Slow roast around 16m

The fast roast was funky and lacking in Blueberry, not so good. The slow roast was rounder richer, huge blueberry notes and a much better coffee as espresso or americano.

in general I am not a fan of overly fast roasting (or overly light roasting) and I don't think it brings out the best in any coffees. It seems to be a trend since the introduction of international roasting competitions, but they are not resting the coffees for 7 days and drinking them as espressos etc.., they are simply cupping them.
I have been doing mostly Yirgicheffe Naturals for espresso. What are the lengths of your phases? My last Ethiopian I dropped at 11:54 and had 3:09 of development If I remember correctly. Our airflow techniques could be way different too. My washed coffees take a slight bit longer.

DaveC
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#19: Post by DaveC replying to thepilgrimsdream »

I can't remember without going back to the logs, but our roasters are very different too, you have a Quest M3, so do I, but these roasts were done on my 1kg roaster the Dalian Amazon (not the CBR1200). The thing about dry processed coffees, for me, is not to push too much heat energy at the beans to roast them fast and not let them get too hot. If you do you just loose the qualities at the surface of the bean that give the fruit notes. After more than 10 years of roasting I have found that dry processed and pulped natural seem to benefit greatly from a less aggressive style of roasting.

bmb
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#20: Post by bmb »

El Magnífico is also a favorite of mine !
A little on the darker side but really good.
Once I had a shot there, and when I left, and was 10 meters away, I had to return to get a second one :)

PS: it's a long running family business, the second or third generation on the trade, and competent coffee hunters.