www.chriscoffee.com: quality & service, second to none

Espresso vs. Drip Roasting

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.

Link to "Espresso vs. Drip Roasting"by seedlings on Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:32 pm

Given a nice coffee, say Brazil Moreninha Foremosa, would you profile the roast differently for espresso vs. brewing (press/vac/etc)? I tend to find a profile that I think tastes good for vacpot and use the same roast for spro too.

I'm curious to hear more input.

Thanks,
CHAD
seedlings
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Oct 31, 2008
Location: Saint Joseph, Missouri

Link to "Espresso vs. Drip Roasting"by yakster on Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:24 pm

I've been roasting differently for espresso versus drip and at the same time looking for more info on this and trying to learn more.

What I do for drip is usually a P2 or P3 profile on the Behmor... P2 is full power until near first with a power drop to 70% to extend the time between first and second while P3 is a more gradual, stepped approach starting out at 70% for the first leg (20% of the roast length), stepping up to 80% power until 55% of the roast length has elapsed, then 100% for the rest of the roast. Lately, I've been using P3 more and more for Ethiopian and Yemen coffees.

For espresso, I'll do a P4 profile which is 70% power for 25% of the roast time, 85% power taken to half the roast time, then 100% power.

What I'm looking for in drip is more brightness and complexity while what I'm looking for in espresso is more body and a balanced cup. Many of the great commercial espresso blends taste pretty boring as drip, but fantastic as espresso and some coffee that tastes great for drip is overly bright/acidic or unbalanced as espresso.

Having said all this, I'm still working on my espresso roasting chops and I'd love for others to weigh in on this.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272
User avatar
yakster
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Location: San Jose, CA

Link to "Espresso vs. Drip Roasting"by ljguitar on Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:02 pm

Hi Chad...
I do roast differently for drip versus espresso.

I use a more gradual profile for espresso with the roast stretched longer with more space between 1st crack and 2nd crack. I also want to take the roast further into 2nd for some of my espresso roasts - though not radically.

On my Behmor, a typical 13.3oz batch for drip is at 1st crack by 13 minutes, and for espresso that would take a bit over 16 minutes to reach 1st crack.

I like the drip a bit brighter and the espresso batches deeper in flavor.

Also, my espresso roasts rest for 6-8 days before use and the drip roasts 3-5 days (typically).

I order most of my beans from Sweet Maria's and though I don't share Tom's passion for very light roasts, I do pay heed to the notes he posts, and don't often hot-rod my beans to the Vienna stage. I did recently take some Sumatra Classic to a near-Vienna and it's superb as drip!


'
L  a  r  r  Y

<°)))><
User avatar
ljguitar
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Location: Cheyenne

Link to "Espresso vs. Drip Roasting"by another_jim on Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:14 pm

You can use a wider range of roasts for brewing than for espresso. In an espresso shot, the acidic light roast flavors (unsweetened fruit and flowers), the Maillard flavors that develop before the first crack (grassy, woody, bready & nutty) and the dark roast distillate flavors (spice, smoke, tar) taste more intense in relation to the buffering middle flavors (sugars, caramels, vanilla & chocolate). This disqualifies very light and very dark roasts, as well as roasts that have taken either too long or not long enough reaching the first crack. Good espresso roasting also uses profiles that retain as much sugar or light, sweet caramel as possible in the finished roast.

In practice, the range for brewed coffees runs from roasts stopped right at the end of the first crack (415F) to roasts taken beyond the end of the second (465F). For espresso, the lightest roasts practical roasts are mostly just before the second crack starts (430F), and the darkest where the 2nd crack starts tailing off (455F). The measures I have given are nominal bean surface temperatures, and can vary by as much as 10F from roaster to roaster.

Finally, and most importantly, if you are drinking auction and competition coffees, the emphasis moves from the preparer and roaster to the farmer and the farm. You are no longer the star of the show, and your job is to best preserve and convey what is in the bean. In practice, this means that the coffees should be roasted as lightly and as quickly as possible for the prep method envisaged, and you should only use the prep method that most individualizes the flavor of that coffee. For instance, if someone offers you a Vienna roast Esmeralda espresso shot, you know you're dealing with the coffee equivalent of a nouveau riche fathead.
User avatar
another_jim
 
Posts: 4524
Joined: May 05, 2005
Location: Chicago

Link to "Espresso vs. Drip Roasting"by seedlings on Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:08 pm

Almost all of my coffee consuming career, which began 3 years or so ago, is my personal home roast, so I don't have anything spectacular to compare to. The Roasterie is nearby and I have had many of their roast offerings, including espresso blends, and I find my roasts as pleasing as what I've sampled from them (literally purchased from the roaster in a hair net). I have had less than a dozen espressos from shops here and there.

Most of my roasts are at the edge of second crack, some just before, some just after, rarely to a rolling second. Perhaps I should sample a known good espresso roast and train my palate from there.

CHAD
seedlings
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Oct 31, 2008
Location: Saint Joseph, Missouri

Link to "Espresso vs. Drip Roasting"by yakster on Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:14 pm

I do make it an occasional habit to force myself to go to a coffee shop that pulls great shots on excellent beans and sample their espresso for learning purposes. The same coffee bar I like to frequent will also sell me fresh beans from Barefoot, Ecco, or Ritual which I'll take home and pull in my lever.

Keeps me honest and on-track, plus it's a hell of a lot of fun to talk coffee in person with someone with as much passion for espresso/coffee as I have.

If you don't have great espresso served locally, I'd recommend ordering fresh, artisan roasted espresso.

Jim, thanks for your post, informative as always and gives me lots to think about. I love coffees stopped at City / City + for vac pot and I can see how those may not work too well for espresso.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272
User avatar
yakster
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Location: San Jose, CA


Return to Home Roasting