I have no access to fresh roasted espresso, so I had to roast for myself. "Roasting is easy", that's all I found online, and based on that I got my IR2 some years ago and enjoyed every roast, the flat, the grassy, the burned, but I never knew they were no good, so it's all good...it's fresh, not stale, you know! Oh, but I'm a tinkerer, so I added a TC to the IR2 chamber and started "profiling", oh goodie, better roasts...may be...I think...I hope?

Then bought a HT-B, and a few months later added some thermometry to it. I logged every single roast and recorded it on my PC with whatever notes I can come up with...HT-B roasts were much better than the IR2's but why? No clue yet...hmm, they say it's the drum...maybe it is...who knows...started saying to myself: "maybe I should re-read more of Jim et al's roasting posts". And I did, and I will continue doing so...and, only very recently, I'm finally getting some roasted, not "browned" espresso.

But now that I'm a bit older and wiser I have to say this...

People: roasting, at least for espresso, to get most or even a lot of what a certain bean can offer is not trivial. Every bean I tried required different times/temps. Heck, in this thread, Gary varied his ET a bit and his bean came alive! Forget about my generic HT-B profiles, they're only good for very lucky people or fresh, crema-and-all, browned beans. Once I customize those generic profiles for a certain bean, very good things start to happen...if I get things right! This basically means there isn't a thing called a good generic profile!

Here's where I'm going with this: roasting (for espresso, I don't do much of anything else) is actually quite challenging. I would even say it's way less trivial than "pulling espresso". Every bean is different, every roasting device is different, and the most important factor in espresso roasting, control, isn't that good in most, unmodified, home roasting devices. So, how come people are raving about the Behmor, or enjoying their IR2's, when their controls are non-existent to lousy? My HT-B is more controllable BUT it's slow in responding to my commands (dropping/increasing heat)...PLUS the controls became meaningful only after I spent $$$ on temp measurement/logging devices.

Why are newcomers being told that "roasting is easy"? Well, "browning" is but roasting isn't. Every home device without decent controls (unmodified: poppers, IRs, Genes?, Behmors, HTs) isn't going to give you anything good for espresso, just fresh "browned coffee"...unless you get that accidental "God Roast"!

FWIW, I'm no expert nor do I consider my palate a developed one, but I still taste the differences between a "browned" bean and a roasted one. Why can't we all start saying it, out loud and in every thread, like it really is: "Roasting for espresso is not easy, buy your beans from someone who knows what they're doing...oh, wait, not all popular roasters do! You have to spend $$$$ and a lot of time to learn this stuff...better move to Italy!"...not that I've ever been to Italy

Masters: am I way off or just a little bit off?


PS: I know my English isn't good enough, but that ain't stopping me...

Your right, every bean is different. The weather is different every day too (I roast outside). The only thing I can tell you is that roasting is a spectator sport. I start the roast (in a behmor) and make sure to be there at the end of the roast to hear first and second crack. I base everything on the crack, nothing else is ever the same.

One more thing on roasting for espresso. You have to rest the beans after roasting. I aim for 5-6 days rest before I use my beans.

coffee.me
I very much agree. The reason many of us have tried to expand the discussions concerning roasting. Sure you can buy a homeroaster and put some good quality beans in it and roast a batch for brewed and it will be better than stale/lower quality supermarket beans but that success can be a bit deceiving. And as you mention roasting for espresso adds many more factors. I see a couple reasons why off the shelf homeroasters are lacking. One is making something idiot proof for safety reasons. I've often wondered if the training offered when someone buys a commercial roaster has some to do with liability? The process of roasting coffee can be pretty dangerous and in the US where we have had dark roasts pushed at us that can add to the dangers. I hear newbies say that they have bought a roaster, did a batch, and wonder why they had a problem getting the beans to come out all oily as they are used to. The thought of the solution being to roast the next batch longer. The good thing about the Behmor is that you can get some chaff singeing and extra smoke but is pretty difficult to actually get a fire going. The second issue is the costs of the quality type controls necessary, as you have discovered. Cheap thermostats have broad temp. swings, cheap rheostats are not very efficient and accurate temp. measurement equipment is expensive too. The reason commercial sample roasters cost big bucks. I do believe that armed with lots of knowledge, experience and some zen abilities homeroasters can produce decent results with these basic off the shelf roasters. I don't expect to ever see the kind of roaster we desire brought to the consumer market. But I do think that we can come up with the "do at your own risks, void warranty" modifications necessary to monitor and control quality roasts. We can educate ourselves with the understandings needed to achieve a quality roast. And we can design DIY roasters that can have the needed abilities without the extreme expense of commercial equipment.
farm

Brad wrote:be there at the end of the roast to hear first and second crack. I base everything on the crack, nothing else is ever the same.

Brad wrote:I aim for 5-6 days rest before I use my beans.

Brad, if I understood correctly, your beans are what I'm calling browned (vs roasted). I'm sure the resting/staling helps with the unmoded Behmor, with its on/off heater cycles & fixed profiles

On my "roasts" (what, like handful roasts vs 100+ brownings), the "roasted" beans taste good out of the roaster. Yes, I think the "roasts" got better with time but they're never nasty...rest or no rest.

Browning...not the best term for bad roasts...can someone suggest something better? Something we can use in sentences like:
"The XXX home browner is very easy and safe to use"
"Home browning is easy and fun"
"With this browner, I get fresh beans that make amazing crema"
"Try to extend the time between 1C & 2C by doing .... your browns will taste less burnt"

farmroast wrote:I do believe that armed with lots of knowledge, experience and some zen abilities homeroasters can produce decent results with these basic off the shelf roasters.

Thank you Ed, that's the exact disclaimer I'd love to see along with the usual "roasting is easy & fun" and "my XXX roasts taste like heaven"

Thank you cofee.me for the good chuckle this morning. I consider myself to be quite an adept home browner with my behmor. I'm waiting for the day the totally tricked out home roaster is unveiled because I know that if I start playing around with modifying equipment, that's the end of it. I've always been fascinated by taking things apart and rarely have I ever got them back together without the help of a hammer and crazy glue. The spare parts collection in my basement is vast. In the meantime I'm pretty content with my browned beans. Though I'm waiting on an order of Klatch coffee to help me recalibrate my palate to gloriously roasted espresso beans. What d'ya mean you've never been to Italy! if you're in the EU you're just up the road.
-Ian

I think you're missing the most important and often overlooked purpose of home roasting: the fun and interaction with the coffee.

I don't roast at home because I can beat the pros who have the equipment and know how rather I roast for the added experience with the beans and the fun of the process. I'm in it for the hobby not to change the world with my beans.

My roasts are quite good. I get the berry, the caramel and chocolate and what ever else have you. As a home roaster I've gotten pretty good roasts most of the time. I can't hold a candle to the experts but to dismiss the hobby of home roasting because my grill doesn't produce Black Cat or what have you would be a shame too.

The pro's are far more consistent and make better roasts, but I'm having fun and learning new things about the coffee (like appreciation for the guys who really know what they are doing).

Tim
I can appreciate what your saying, but by your list of toys I think you've gone well beyond the thought that anything coffee is "simple and easy".
always having fun,
Ed

I feel your frustrations Max! ..and agree with most everything you said there. For espresso though I have found that most every roast I've done (...if not all) definitely benefit from 5-7 days post roast rest. It may be in part due to my preference for lighter roasts, but the crema is also too much 'soda fountain' at days 2-4. Give the rest a try for starts. Home roasting for espresso is likely much more challenging (like you, I only drink espresso now, straight and Capps so I don't know much about any other brew) and espresso extraction, depending on dose and shot volume... etc can turn a cucumber into a pickle. Try lower doses and moderate shot volumes to help the coffe flavors come through. This has helped me to explore SO espresso.

....but don't you think that the 'pro-roaster' goes through a similar process to dial in and interpret a bean and how to get the best out of it? Every year with every new crop? ( with the advantage of much more knowledge and experience.)

what I think would help the learning curve for home roasting is a good profesional seminar from Boot:
http://www.bootcoffee.com/courses_program.html#goto3

....I'm not sure when I'll get the chance to do that but I'm guessing it would be worth more to my roasting quality than a new roaster!

I suggest to work with one bean and one bean only for a good long while. Get 20 pounds of something relatively easy (NOT Idido Misty Valley!). I think, depending on your taste would be a Bourbon between El Salvador and Guatemala. Something moderate intensity that works well in a wide roast window so you can experiment and see how far that roasting dial can take a single bean. I think the worst thing to get started is those 'sample packs' of 1-2 lbs each of many different beans. It takes me quite a few batches just to get a bean figured out. That could get to 2 lbs in a hurry. On SM greens list I would go between El Salvador Orange Bourbon (almost too mild for my taste) and Guatemala San Jose Ocana (almost too intense and spicy for SO straight espresso). .... they both have a wide roast window and they mix well post roast to balance.

Funny about that Idido (I missed the 2006 crop) but there is a discussion on the SM list about it and to read the wide variety of comments and interpretations on that bean you would hardly believe they are talking about the same bean! ...but I agree with most all of them as I have taken that bean to quite a few places with changing the roast alone.

.....I think that brings me to what I find most fascinating and rewarding about home roasting (...once you have a roaster you can control well, understand, and monitor): learning about the variety of beans and where you can take the flavor profile by adjusting those dials and roast profiles on your roaster. Keep an open mind to what you are tasting, learn from your mistakes, if it is too bad to drink, learn from it, toss it and move on!

Trust your own taste, you are on the right track, you realize denial is not a river in Egypt.