Dr. Gary's posts about the poor build quality of the HT is right on. I haven't roasted at home for many months as it takes me at least one hour just to put my modified HT back together, with some screws never going back in. The wires from the thermocouples keep coming out of the TC4-THC and I'm fed up up. Buying coffee online from the right roaster, such as Counter Culture, can result in coffee as good or better than one can do at home. What one doesn't get is the degree of roast or the varieties one can do at home. PA is not much warmer the NY and outdoor roasting in the winter will result in poor roasts due to the freezing temps. Thermocouples, software etc. really are needed for consistent roasts that are as good as the good commercial roasters. My "local" roaster, 1/2 hour car ride away in the next county, uses robusta so I never even tried his. Either online or home roasting, and if I had to do it again, a Huky is the way to go but a gas roaster is not an indoor one.

Marvin

I just roasted 375g of Ethiopia Kochore in under 12 minutes to a 13.6% weight loss and I wasn't even pushing it hard. More of a proof of concept than anything.

Let's turn the talk back to what the topic was started on. I personally think any roaster who's dedicated to paying attention, and has a modicum of experience under his/her belt should be able to match paces with a commercial roaster and often surpass them (even if it's just experimentation). The ace in the hole for an amateur is they're not bound by needs of consistency. I don't have to be consistent, I just have to be excellent. I'm only pleasing my palate and a small group of people at most. I can tweak and experiment on the fly with the same coffee at peak freshness whereas a production roaster is for the most part (and not by any means all of them) bound to delivering a consistent result. If you're selling 30,000 lb's of coffee a month, you don't have the ability to stretch boundaries on each roast for optimal results each time, you have to nail a static target that's taped to the back of a donkey that won't stop moving.

Consistency ≠ Excellence

+1 on Tom's post that happened while I was writing the one below.

JohnB. wrote:No doubt it has lots of plastic but limited batch size compared to what? Certainly not the Quest which you seem to like. A stock Hottop will easily roast 250g batches & up to 300g with a variac or excellent household voltage. With the mods I've done I can roast 300 - 325g batches without issues & have done several 350g roasts. Ideal batch size for the Quest is 200g I believe??

Answering the OP's question requires trade-offs and I'll be interested in his response to these latest posts. Sure, the Quest has smaller batch size than the Hottop, although I've seen some people pushing batch size on the Quest. To me the Quest seems the most sophisticated, complete and controllable of that level of home roaster with limited batch size. Before getting my North TJ-067 roaster I was considering something in its class (Bella Taiwan Mini 500/Santoker/etc.) or at the step below that, Quest M3, which I ruled out because of batch size or Huky 500, which has sufficient batch size for my needs but seemed a less complete roaster than a Quest or the next class up. I liked the Huky's heavy build quality and the simplicity of being able to heat it with a large stove burner or equivalent. When I was considering the Huky there were fewer happy owners, so it was less proven. I was moving up from the Hottop for reasons stated earlier. I could do very good roasts with it but I had a serious case of upgradeitis.

So, Rich is probably right, that a North or Mini 500 and such are more controllable than a Huky (I think a Quest is very controllable), but I'm more inclined to believe someone can get a decent piece of gear, get to know it well, practice with it and become consistent in its use. That's certainly what I've encouraged with home lever machines. I selected the North over the Bella Taiwan because it was less expensive with twice the batch size and of a similar type. It won't be perfect either. I look forward to learning its quirks, dialing it in, and using it for many years to come. I've already overcome a drum rub and hope I've solved the thermocouple noise problem I had awhile back and will now finally have a chance to use it -- getting resettled in a new home town has taken most of my time. I don't expect I'll want to upgrade from the North because I don't have dreams of becoming a professional roaster, where larger batch sizes would be needed. But I wanted a very good piece of gear. With the North, like with my PID'd Conti Prestina, I should be able to concentrate on coffee skills more than compensate for inadequate equipment.

TomC wrote:Let's turn the talk back to what the topic was started on. I personally think any roaster who's dedicated to paying attention, and has a modicum of experience under his/her belt should be able to match paces with a commercial roaster and often surpass them (even if it's just experimentation). The ace in the hole for an amateur is they're not bound by needs of consistency. I don't have to be consistent, I just have to be excellent. I'm only pleasing my palate and a small group of people at most. I can tweak and experiment on the fly with the same coffee at peak freshness whereas a production roaster is for the most part (and not by any means all of them) bound to delivering a consistent result.

A commercial roaster can, of course, experiment with several batches before choosing a particular profile for production purposes. Ideally, one would hope that they were consistently delivering a profile they had already identified as excellent. But in reality, of course, commercial roasters have to deal with all sorts of headaches that we don't, and if their customers don't notice the difference between "good," "very good," and "excellent," then they have little incentive to use up pounds of green coffee experimenting to find the perfect profile for each roast. In that sense we truly have the advantage!

The thing that I still think is missing in this discussion is that the issue of variability in quality arises both for home roasters and pros. Even my favorite professional roasters sometimes sell me batches I find fault in. At the same time, some of my roasts are just crappy, whether it is because I am experimenting with a new approach, trying to understand a new coffee, or just making a mistake in executing a profile. If we count our "best roasts" against the pros' "average," we are rigging the game in our favor. And of course, there are also a wide variety of quality levels among commercial roasters. If we were to take either a "peak quality" or an "average quality" approach, I'd say there are many commercial roasters I can beat and a few that I can't, yet. But that "yet" is important; this is craft I hope to improve at for years to come.

One other thing I think we should acknowledge is the "home team advantage" that comes with comparing our home roasts to a sample from a pro. Both my roasting and my brewing generally work in tandem. I roast based on what tastes good using the brewing methods I prefer, and those methods are, to some extent, chosen because they make my roasts taste good. Sometimes when I buy coffee from a pro I get recommendations on how they prefer to brew it, but more often I don't. To some extent, whether I like their coffee as much as I like my own may depend on whether I discover the approach to brewing that features it in the best possible light before I run out of it or get bored.

drgary wrote:Answering the OP's question requires trade-offs and I'll be interested in his response to these latest posts. Sure, the Quest has smaller batch size than the Hottop, although I've seen some people pushing batch size on the Quest. To me the Quest seems the most sophisticated, complete and controllable of that level of home roaster with limited batch size. Before getting my North TJ-067 roaster I was considering something in its class (Bella Taiwan Mini 500/Santoker/etc.) or at the step below that, Quest M3, which I ruled out because of batch size or Huky 500, which has sufficient batch size for my needs but seemed a less complete roaster than a Quest or the next class up. I liked the Huky's heavy build quality and the simplicity of being able to heat it with a large stove burner or equivalent. When I was considering the Huky there were fewer happy owners, so it was less proven. I was moving up from the Hottop for reasons stated earlier. I could do very good roasts with it but I had a serious case of upgradeitis.

I've read through the post and again, thanks to everyone for their contribution! It's what makes these forums great for discussion.

Almost had me with the Huky. The good part is thinking about the Huky made me think outside the box as far as placement. My options really opened up when I thought about it. The Huky really seems like a great machine and yes, there is a but. I really do need to keep the footprint to a minimum. It appears that you have to get a lot of extra items with the Huky. IR burner, funnel, extra fan, pan, exhaust, where to to put the LP tank, etc. That seems to take up a lot of extra real estate. It does bring up the cost to about $1500 or a little below.

That leaves the Quest M3 and Hottop. Evaluting my needs, I feed my Rocket Giotto about a 1/2lb of fresh beans a week. I actually buy a pound but by then, I am feeding my Aeropress towards the end. Smaller batches seems to be more my speed.

The Quest and Hottop "B" are separated by about $250. The other concern is mods. While I could probably do them, do I want to? Drilling holes, etc. There are no shortage of mods to do with a Hottop or so I read.

How about the Quest? There seems to be some exisitng holes to utiize in the faceplate? Just throwing it out there for the sake of discussion.

wrz0170 wrote:How about the Quest? There seems to be some exisitng holes to utiize in the faceplate? Just throwing it out there for the sake of discussion.

I love my Quest.

The only mods that I think are meaningful are also very easy. BT and MET readings can be taken through existing holes (erics was my source for all things thermocouple). I also painted the exterior of the drum flat black.

William,

I don't think you'll go wrong with a Quest, which may be best suited to your needs.

Everything has been so equipment oriented in this thread.

Equipment matters only if you know how to use it.

i started with a Behmor, then Hotop B modified, onto Diedrich IR-1.

Plenty of difference between the three roasters I used.

There's way more than that if you read carefully, but the discussion has been interactive. I judge the success of a thread by the OP's reaction and continued engagement.

wrz0170 wrote:I've read through the post and again, thanks to everyone for their contribution! It's what makes these forums great for discussion....

The Quest and Hottop "B" are separated by about $250. The other concern is mods. While I could probably do them, do I want to? Drilling holes, etc. There are no shortage of mods to do with a Hottop or so I read.

How about the Quest? There seems to be some exisitng holes to utiize in the faceplate? Just throwing it out there for the sake of discussion.

wrz0170 wrote: I am not too interested in hooking up computers, thermometers and other implements (at this time). I just want to buy good beans, roast a 1/2 lb at a time, hopefully better than what I can get locally or internet.

Good call.
Heatgun/dogbowl here, from out of the shadows.
For 10+ years I've been looking for an off-the-shelf roaster to accomplish just what you are asking for. During that time the roaster choices have improved, but so have my own knowledge, skills, and palate. I'm still open to purchasing a machine that will allow me to watch the roast develop, let me hear what's poppin', smell the beans, etc. Nothing yet.

Can I consistently roast as well as a commercial roaster? Probably not----if I pay lots of attention to offerings and make good guesses, and very carefully manage my roasted stash including nailing down my freezing protocols.

But there's another question--you might be asking: Can I consistently produce coffee that provides as satisfying a coffee experience as purchasing roasted coffee? Definite yes to that! When buying green coffee I frequently also purchase a pound (make that 12 oz!) of the same variety roasted. My roasts are always very close. Furthermore, instead of trying to copy, I often decide to change the roast to suit my taste. This might mean going a bit darker with a bright bean not ideally suited for espresso or, more often, roasting a green blend lighter than the commercial-roasted version.

Of course, I've learned over the years that heatgun roasting isn't everybody's cup of coffee. Roasting machines, especially the costly ones, might provide additional motivation to stick with the learning curve any roasting endeavor requires--given the money spent. OTOH, a cheap HG might introduce you to roasting, your roasts might rise to your expectations, or you might be tempted by a Huky if you convince yourself that you will enjoy and make good use of the bells, whistles, and software.