Development time as a ratio of roast time by Scott Rao - Page 8

August 21st, 2014, 11:45 pm

another_jim wrote:(although in the interests of politeness; I'll restrain myself from calling them obscurantist mystification)

And now, after this brief moment of clarity, I return you to your regularly scheduled "rate of rise decline rates" and "roast proportions" infomercial and testimonial programming.

polite? I'm done with this crap

#72: Post by **fu11c17y** » August 22nd, 2014, 2:42 am

cimarronEric wrote:Just want to say, Jim, I bought Scott's book and it has given me concise, clear food for thought and hypotheses to test. I don't take anything on the forum, in any books, in seminars, in online classes etc... as doctrine but as nourishment for the process of honing a craft.

AND I would be first in line to buy if you were to put together a compilation of all your thoughts regarding roasting. Just saying there could be $50 (from me at least. I bet others on the forum would buy) in your pocket if you pull together an ebook.

+1

#73: Post by HB » August 22nd, 2014, 7:15 am

I've received messages from a few members concerned about the tenor of discussion surrounding Scott's new book, notably the phrasing of Jim's skepticism about some of its claims. Ed's post succinctly summarizes the feelings of those who've contacted me offline:

farmroast wrote:polite? I'm done with this crap

It's good that Scott's book has stirred fresh discussion (!). Jim's veiled digs skirt the edges of a violation of the site's "Be respectful" rule of the Guidelines for productive online discussion. That said, Jim has enough cred that I think he's earned the right to voice skepticism, even if it contains a small measure of derision.

I temporarily locked the last thread New Book: The Coffee Roaster's Companion by Scott Rao when it devolved into personal attacks and metadiscussion about personal attacks. This thread seems to be heading down the same path, so I'm locking it for a brief half day while contributors ponder the Guidelines.

On a related note, I invite Scott Rao to participate in the discussion, assuming he would be willing to accept that his ideas will be challenged. If that interests him, I could offer a new thread of discussion that would be more closely moderated than the open forum (e.g., similar to Buy/Sell posts, which must be approved before shown). Or, if there's another venue where he'd prefer to share his thoughts (e.g., a blog), he's welcome to post a link so members who wish to ask him questions directly can do so.

#74: Post by JK » August 30th, 2014, 12:52 am

I made this time list following Scott's 20%-25% Roast Development Time..

I know people have issues with it but it gets me in the ball park..
Something to compare to for this newbie..

Development Times 22.5% 

1C         DEV.       EOR
8.1        2.4        10.5
8.5        2.5        11
8.9        2.6        11.5
9.3        2.7        12
9.7        2.8        12.5
10         2.9        13
10.4       3.0        13.5
10.8       3.2        14
11.2       3.3        14.5
11.6       3.4       15

August 30th, 2014, 10:51 am

I've found it quite tasty to go even shorter. 9.75 minutes with proper heat control can deliver sweet syrupy goodness in a washed Ethiopian.

August 30th, 2014, 11:02 am

Now that I have time to think about this rule it seems to this newbie the DEV. Times are backwards.. On a 11min 1C roast with a slow even heat you get a longer DEV 3.3mins
On a fast 8min high heat roast you would think you want a slower DEV but it is a shorter DEV not the longer to evenly heat the inside.. I guess the rule needs tweaking from what I think I know..

Might be better to use 25% for short roasts and 20% for longer roasts

August 30th, 2014, 11:21 am

JK wrote:Might be better to use 25% for short roasts and 20% for longer roasts

As has already been noted, there are no hard and fast rules for roasting coffee.

It's more roast objective specific than that. If it's a shorter roast for a fruity, bright, clean coffee I would probably end up with something closer to 20%. The Teklu I'm roasting now is a good example. ~10 minute roast with ~20% development.

For my espresso blend, I want more development and more time to get there so it's a ~12 minute roast with ~25% development.

So it depends on what bean you're roasting and what you want to get out of it more than any specific rules. Also, I still very closely watch the dry/ramp ratio to seek specific flavor tones. Of course this is what I find works well for my beans, my equipment and my palate.

August 30th, 2014, 11:47 am

Trying to follow new guidelines and learn my new Huky and figure out the Roastmaster app all at once has me totally confused. I ended up with some 16 minutes roasts yesterday - 7 minutes post 1cs. Yikes! I intend to go back to just learning the new roaster with what I think I already knew about roasting and see where that takes me.

#79: Post by **boar_d_laze** » August 30th, 2014, 1:20 pm

Rao's Ratio notwithstanding if you're development RoRs and times aren't pegged to desired finish levels, you're doing something hugely wrong. These things don't exist in isolation.

Rich

#80: Post by **fu11c17y** » September 9th, 2014, 11:33 am

Just for fun...

We have seen the winning profiles in the 2013 world coffee roasting championship. Let's double check their work

https://www.cropster.com/the-winning-pr ... ship-2013/

Maybe the reason for Naoki Goto's win, he is a follower of Rao's principles in both components of his blend

First Crack Red: 06:17 min / Development Time: 98 seconds (Dev/Total = 20.6%)
First Crack Blue: 07:12 min / Development Time: 106 seconds (Dev/Total = 19.7%)

In the second place, only 1 of the profiles followed Rao's ratio in the blend. In the third place, it does not follow Rao's ratio.

Q.E.D.