Note: This is the final pre-production factory production test run unit.

Alchemist wrote:I just wanted to toss this out. I posted this over on CG also. I currently have on testing loan one of the pre-production models of the Behmor 1600 and have been test driving about a week.

With bean weight, 5 profiles and length of time adjustments (the profile length changes if you change in initial length of roast as it is based on % not minutes) there are a LOT of permutations to test out, but if people have some specific questions they want answered now that one is available to test, please ask them.

Just thought I'd mention a second sighting has occurred. Here's cut & paste post I made on SM List earlier this evening...

Damn, I'm impressed early with what a MMAAP $299 (Mfg. Minimum Allowed Advertised Price) 1# roaster can do. Yeah, mine arrived this afternoon. During PNWG V had way too much other stuff to do to give it much attention. Obviously haven't had much time with it, like less than 3 hours. Did a empty burn in then 1# Generic Guat test roast to City+, 18 minute roast using P2, a profile with heater 100% about the 1st 2/3 time then drops to 70% end stage. Or more accurately this profile has 70% heater followed by a short 10% of time at 100% heat very end. (Pound of Guat Joe had left, given to him and stated to be less than stellar.) Decided to roast in the kitchen with hood off. No visible smoke, the bare faintest roast odor. After cooling had kicked in waited about a minute and opened the door for a faster cooler, now smoke came out (but not that much) and I kicked on the twin cyclone 700cfm exhaust hood. Cool to touch in about 4 minutes from end of roast. Roast a bit uneven but not severely so. Total of two beans stuck in the mesh drum. Chaff removal very good. Of course, opening the door during cooling does allow some chaff to escape the roaster, mini shop vac on the ready.

Ok, since this morning I'd roasted two half pounders WP Yirg for a frozen greens roast test (frozen and defrosted before roasting plus usually vac sealed room temp greens) decided to roast a half of the same Yirg' in the Behmor. Used a different profile than the Guat. Three stages each stage increasing heat. Has five built in profiles, all modifiable in time
percentages middle and end stages. The "profiles" themselves cannot be changed, yet still has good flexibility. More accurately a given stages heater power percentage cannot be changed, how long at that stage can. Decided to leave door closed for entire cooling, outer door moderately warm 5 minute mark, virtually room temp end of 10 minute cooling cycle. Drum loading and removal easy and straight forward IMO. Oh, no gloves required. Unless you want to remove the drum at end of roast to manually speed cool of course. But I'm going to do all my testing cooling in Behmor.

Preliminary indications IMO this is gonna be one hell of a 1# sub $300 off the shelf roaster. Expect them to hit the market end of August first part of September per talking with Joe today. More will be revealed. Hopefully Tom decides to carry them...

If there's any negative so far it's that I can't smell the roast progression nearly as well as from the Rosto exhaust. Dang afterburner doing it's job!

Oh, IMO the inside light does a good job illuminating the roast for visual. Will want to keep the door window clean.

May do an early 3 way cupping of the Yirg's tomorrow morning.

This IS good news. I'll be following this one closely. More, more, more! (Please )

First not sure if Dan would prefer these posts in the New home roaster to debut at SCAA Long Beach CG thread, but since A) I spend more time here and B) that thread was primarily speculations rather than observations I'll continue here unless requested otherwise. (edit: Dan okie-dokied keeping it here)

I'll get the potential major problem out of the way from the git go. Namely this, some may find it too easy to roast too much too fast! Especially when playing with a new toy. Glad I picked up a used 13cuft freezer targeted for dedicated coffee storage just last weekend. While was intended for vac'd greens looks like some vac'd roasted may be there right quickly.

The preliminary pre-release documentation includes the following:

The Behmor 1600 is the world's first and only one-pound capacity home coffee roaster designed strictly for roasting coffee. When used with high quality beans, The Behmor 1600 roasts in virtually every application with no visible smoke up to 2nd crack*. The Behmor 1600 is the only roaster in the world manufactured with a variable speed motor to facilitate proper bean rotation, plus allow for higher more efficient cooling and chaff removal. In addition, the Behmor 1600 variable-speed fan controls allowing for optimum functionality.

The Behmor 1600 will, in the overwhelming majority of cases, take up to a single pound of green coffee into 2nd crack* without visible smoke being emitted. For Full City+ roasts, we recommend you reduce the quantity of the roast to ½ pound. The Behmor 1600 is not intended nor meant to roast coffee to levels known as Vienna, French, and Italian or darker.

Taking close note of the admonition of doing smaller 1/2# batches for darker roasts I of course proceeded to start today's trials doing a slightly over spec' sized 18oz batch to FC maybe FC+. Chose the most heat aggressive profile with roast time set for 20 minutes, this profile basically 100% heater full time. 1st started ~15minute mark, few early 2nd's 19:30, hit cooling @20 as 2nd just really starting, last slow 2nd's ~1:30 into cooling. (Did not take it into rolling 2nd, I never do:-) A wee bit of smoke was noticeable as cooling started, to be expected. Decided to go for total door closed cooling. Had added 30 seconds for max 20:30 but killed at 20 anyway anticipating 2nd continuing first part of cooling. FWIW this was of a very mixed Arabica espresso blend. Was a blend of mine comprised of 25% split between aged Sumatra & Monsoon Malabar low end, 40% 2 different Brazil mid base notes, 35% WP Yirg' and Guat' bourbon. But this batch even more mixed! Only 11.1oz left of my blend so topped if off with Tom's Monkey Blend for 18oz. FWIW I hadn't intended (as in didn't think of it) to shoot for a post roast pound but will later. 18oz yielded 14.9oz, 17.2% weight loss. Next time I'll do 19.2 oz for post roast full pound test.

Initial impression gorgeous FC+ roast with nary a drop of oil, but not quite exactly were I'd wanted it. Had targeted FC but missed slightly with the continued bit of roasting with door closed cooling, will just be a matter of learning the roaster. Very even roast, especially considering the extreme pre-roast blend. Definitely looking forward to how the shots pull in a few days. Ok waited a whole hour and pulled a shot. Actually not bad at all yet way to young to judge.

Ok, time for a really serious test. Next roasted a 1/2# Kona Zuma Estate. Chose P5, the gentlest profile, initial time set for 14 minutes. Added 30 sec additional time during 1st and ended roast 14:15 as 1st thoroughly finished but well before 2nd, about City+. (Why I didn't record 1st crack start times the next two roasts is beyond me. ) Now I've roasted literally hundreds of Kona batches the past going on 7 years. My norm is to post roast munch a few beans and have been able to fairly well tell how well it'll be in the cup from the munch. Based on the munch it's looking to be an excellent balanced smooth and sweet with a good acidic dance Kona roast.

Next tossed in a 1/2# of India Mysore Nuggets Extra Bold again using P5 set 15. During 1st added 30 seconds targeting FC and let cooling kick in 15:30. Again in roaster closed door. This time a hair lighter than wanted, should have either added another 15 seconds or used a more aggressive profile. But the post roast munch sure was good so maybe not!

Was going to roast some Rwanda Bourbon next using a more aggressive profile but decided what with roasting 3 half pounders of Yirg' plus a pound of Guat' yesterday plus today's roasts I'd best quit playing.

So far nothing has changed my early opinion the Behmor 1600 is going to be a winner. Sure it would be nice to have things like bean mass and roast environment temp monitoring/display, tryer, full user programmable profiles including automatic end of roast by bean temp option, no drum removal bean dump. Then again commercial roasters with that type of control cost many thousands just for the control systems not ~$300! And while there are very good control systems for home roasters being built (and sometimes sold) even those control systems cost way more than the Behmor 1600. OTOH in the hands of the geekier home roasters this puppy might well turn into a totally automated fully profilable roaster. But it's got pretty good roast flexibility just the way it is.

(Edit) First corrected Kona roast time above. Also forgot to mention that while P2 profile is "100% heater" applied full time that really doesn't mean the heater will be on 100% of the time. It means it'll be on 100% heat power until max designed roast temp is attained then toggle on and off maintaining max roast temp.

Dan gently chided me

Try to restrain your enthusiasm, HB prides itself on dispassionate evaluations.

Ok, yes I'm more than somewhat surprised and delighted at the feature set and and preliminary performance results for such an affordable off the shelf 1# max (plus a bit more ) roaster.

That said I don't particular like the way it looks reminding me of a kitchen appliance small microwave/large toaster oven, 'taint no stylin' SF1! I'll add it seems more solidly made like a good microwave than a toaster oven regardless the looks. Pic's and videos to follow.

What can I say. Been home roasting going on 7 years via variable boost voltage controlled Rosto and this is the first off the shelf roaster to really get my attention. No it's not in nearly the same profile control league as Jeffrey's CCR modified HotTop or Mike's (just plain) PID P1 Uber Poppers or Jim's or others, but not in the same price league either plus larger batch size as CCR HotTop and no hacking electronic knowledge required for "some" decent indoor roasting control. Considering it's batch capacity, (limited) profile capability and price point the Behmor 1600 could be a serious HotTop/Gene Cafe killer (read forcing price reductions). Don't see how it'll do anything but improve the home roast community's options.

But I'll attempt to keep future ramblings strictly to observed details and facts and post-roast tastings!

Thanks for the great first-hand info. So far from what you've said, I'm most concerned that the long roast times for 1# batches will miss the flavor peaks on many beans. So I'm eager to hear any flavor shoot-out info you might have. Also, since we're totally ignorant of all the details on this machine... you mentioned "max roast temp". Is that adjustable on the front panel? I mean other than cranking up the voltage with a transformer?

Jim

miKe mcKoffee wrote:Dan gently chided me

Try to restrain your enthusiasm, HB prides itself on dispassionate evaluations.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I can't remember how many reviews I have read where people said that something was the "best" and promptly ended up changing their minds several months later.

Cheers,

Luca

dBndbit wrote:Thanks for the great first-hand info.

You're welcome.

So far from what you've said, I'm most concerned that the long roast times for 1# batches will miss the flavor peaks on many beans. So I'm eager to hear any flavor shoot-out info you might have.

Long compared to what? IMO while the roasts times with max rated load of stated 18 to 23 minutes may seem long, but compared to what? Roasters like Diedrichs when operated at their max capacity roast in these time ranges, the HotTops advertised roast times for 9oz batch are 17 to 23 minutes. Compared to a fluid bed roaster sure. However the beans heat differently in a drum and for one take longer to come up to actually roasting temps from room temp versus fluid bed. And different drum roasters heat differently. With the Behmor the drum environment is not pre-heated before bean load like many drum roasters including the HotTop. So a portion of the total roast time of the Behmor doesn't really count in a time comparison.

The truth of course is only one place, in the cup. The challenge for flavor shoot-outs is multifold. Can't afford to roast a whole bunch of 1# batches just for taste testing and tasting would be limited to myself!

That said if some would like to compare a Behmor roast to their roasts I'm willing to do it for them. They'd ship me a pound of greens plus a check or MO for $4.60 to cover USPS Priority US shipping back to them. I'd roast and ship same day. If wanting more than a pound roasted say to compare 1 & 1/2# batches of the same or multiple greens or same green different profiles etc, shipping would be $8.95 US up to about 12#. (Canada or Mexico would be $9 for 1#, $23 up to 12#. All other countries $11/$37.) I'd also request $0.50 per batch roasted to defray cost of valve bag for the roast(s). Sorry but finances are tight and this isn't a sponsored review with a bunch of coffee provided for tests!

Also, since we're totally ignorant of all the details on this machine... you mentioned "max roast temp". Is that adjustable on the front panel? I mean other than cranking up the voltage with a transformer?
Jim

I've been requested by Joe not to give out design detail specifics do to competitor snooping etc. but think this is ok to answer. The maximum roast chamber temp is fixed (safety design feature) and equates to ~482f. Cranking up the voltage would not raise the maximum temp, the heaters would simply be toggled off more. Until/unless hacking the Behmor of course.

See also http://www.behmor.com/

luca wrote:Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I can't remember how many reviews I have read where people said that something was the "best" and promptly ended up changing their minds several months later.

Cheers,

Luca

I don't disagree. For the record note I've used terms like preliminary results, preliminary indications, impressed early, initial impression, early opinion etc. Never said it's the best home roaster imaginable, even enumerated a few things I wish it had.

I'm relatively new to roasting, so I refrain from claiming any fixed opinions. But from what I've read and what I've experienced, many beans loose flavor when the roast time to 2nd crack goes out much beyond 15 minutes. And pre-heating a machine is usually an easy way to minimize time to first crack.

I understand and sympathize with the heartbreak of sacrificing a bunch of good beans. But this is for science! So I'll gladly help out. I've got some pretty good Kenyan PB in the stash. They roast a little faster than normal beans due to their size, but we can mentally adjust for that. PM me with your address and I'll send a bag your way.

Here's what I propose... I'll trust your taste buds. I'll send a couple of pounds to cover at least three roasts: 1#, 1/2#, and 1/4#. You keep the coffee and just post your flavor analysis, or just comments on any differences in the roasts. Brew it however your taste buds would be most sensitive. For roasting, pick the same (fastest=hottest?) profile on the Behmor. Pre-heat the Behmor in some predictable way for each roast. Roast all three exactly to the beginning of 2nd crack. (first crack of second crack?) Normally I wouldn't roast these beans quite that far, but we need an exact comparison point. Please keep a record of times for beginning of first crack and second crack. And please, if possible, also pull the beans out of the roaster for an immediate cool down. Is this an OK plan? The results would be really interesting, I think.

But this asks a lot of time and fiddling, so if your life is tightly scheduled I understand why this kind of testing is unreasonable.

Regardless of the testing, I look forward to reading all your comments.

dBndbit wrote:I'm relatively new to roasting, so I refrain from claiming any fixed opinions. But from what I've read and what I've experienced, many beans loose flavor when the roast time to 2nd crack goes out much beyond 15 minutes. And pre-heating a machine is usually an easy way to minimize time to first crack.

I understand and sympathize with the heartbreak of sacrificing a bunch of good beans. But this is for science! So I'll gladly help out. I've got some pretty good Kenyan PB in the stash. They roast a little faster than normal beans due to their size, but we can mentally adjust for that. PM me with your address and I'll send a bag your way.

Here's what I propose... I'll trust your taste buds. I'll send a couple of pounds to cover at least three roasts: 1#, 1/2#, and 1/4#. You keep the coffee and just post your flavor analysis, or just comments on any differences in the roasts. Brew it however your taste buds would be most sensitive. For roasting, pick the same (fastest=hottest?) profile on the Behmor. Pre-heat the Behmor in some predictable way for each roast. Roast all three exactly to the beginning of 2nd crack. (first crack of second crack?) Normally I wouldn't roast these beans quite that far, but we need an exact comparison point. Please keep a record of times for beginning of first crack and second crack. And please, if possible, also pull the beans out of the roaster for an immediate cool down. Is this an OK plan? The results would be really interesting, I think.

But this asks a lot of time and fiddling, so if your life is tightly scheduled I understand why this kind of testing is unreasonable.

Regardless of the testing, I look forward to reading all your comments.

I believe would/could be more beneficial to have roasts tasted by those familiar with the bean compared to their other roast method(s). Plus more tasters would provide greater feedback. Might also be possible to get some advanced cuppers (like Jim) to agree to have roasts shipped to them. But sorry to say I'm not in a financial position to pay for a bunch of shipping.

Cooling wise no, I'm not willing nor want to use extreme put on the gloves yank out the drum cooling methods. First using the documented modified method of opening door a minute or two after cooling kicks in cools amply fast enough IMO (and that of many professional roasters) plus want to see how total closed door cooling affects the cup. I will be doing some roasts of same bean same profile etc. comparing the those two methods. My understanding the total closed door cooling is a by design ease of use low cost compromise solution for the novice who wants it clean and simple and in the kitchen.