I've been evaluating a number of coffees lately for possible purchase, and run a bunch of sample roasts on my M3, a roaster that I would describe myself as being "inexpert" at using.

I had a batch of a Brazil that I roasted darker and faster than I intended, around a 12 minute roast that entered 2nd crack and had a 17+% weight loss in roasting.

When tasted for SO espresso at days 2, 3, and 4, it was rather excellent, with lots of chocolate and a creamy smoothness to it. Not only did I find it excellent, but a friend who likes my SOs tasted with me and considered it outstanding. I returned to the coffee on day 7, and all I got was ashiness and bitterness; tasted twice at doubleshot doses of 15.5g, 201F, ~18g resulting shots.

I am interpreting this as the roast defects having a delay in becoming evident on tasting, and that this has little or nothing to do with the underlying coffee. What do you think?

ken

The unusually intense chocolate flavor and subsequent ashiness go together; they both happened to me when roasting some DPs or low altitude coffees a little too hot (at least on the M3). I can correct this by keeping my maximum drum temperature about 25F lower than usual for these coffees and slowing down (or using a smaller dose). I've noted it with the Maui Mocha and a forgettable ECX Sidamos.

The problem with that if roasted properly, the chocolate becomes less intense and more malty tasting; so for the Maui Mocha, which is all about the chocolate, I've been going just a little too hot deliberately, and then consuming it within 4 or 5 days.

I have noticed that in general with Brazils. While my meager hottop is limiting, if I accidently take a brazil to far I try to consume it quicker than usual just to avoid the ashy charcoal flavor that I will inevitably get. I also drop the brew temperature slightly, grind coarser and up the dose as the coffee ages. It helps to prolong it but eventually it gets consumed, given away or put in the flower bed.

"When the coffee is roasted it develops a lot of CO2 gas inside the beans. This gas will make the coffee taste smokey and ashy immediately after roasting. It is absolutely crucial to let the coffee degas and rest for a while before use to ensure maximum flavour." http://bit.ly/fxQJQX

endlesscycles wrote:"When the coffee is roasted it develops a lot of CO2 gas inside the beans. This gas will make the coffee taste smokey and ashy immediately after roasting. It is absolutely crucial to let the coffee degas and rest for a while before use to ensure maximum flavour." http://bit.ly/fxQJQX

Perhaps you did not read my initial post clearly. I was not complaining about coffee that started out tasting "ashy," but later improved. Rather, I was writing about a sample of coffee that I had accidentally over-roasted, that started off tasting very chocolaty but ended up, at the one week point, of tasting ashy.

To my knowledge, CO2 does not taste "ashy," in fact it is the same gas which is used to carbonate beverages including soft drinks. CO2 is also, without a doubt, not the only thing that "gasses off" from beans right after they are roasted.

ken

I read your post quite clearly, however I found it curious that T.W. reports just the opposite occurrence with respect to time. I'm not going to assume I know why he says the gas makes the coffee taste smoky and ashy (not that the gas itself is smoky or ashy tasting, as you seem to have inferred), but his current blend is 100% Brazil.

I roast about 100-120lbs of Brazil/month and have not ever had the opportunity to taste a smoky or ashy shot...early or late. Maybe I need to raise my final degree a tad to get results more in line with T.W.'s; I don't know...but this is Tim Wendelboe and all.

I was reporting on what I perceive to be a roasting flaw, e.g. coffee that was not roasted to a profile that I would intentionally do or recommend that anyone else do. The total roast time was not much more than 12 minutes, first crack was hit quite early, and the total roast level, into 2nd crack, resulted in a weight loss of 17+ percent. In other words, there was a very fast initiation of 1st crack, a long drawn out 5+ minute interval between that and the end of the roast, which was quite dark, especially taking into consideration the aberrant timing. In short I am saying that the coffee was essentially "burnt."

What was surprising to me was that the coffee showed very well for SO espresso for several days after it was roasted, and only later did what I interpret to be a bad roasting profile seem to effect the espresso shots.

I doubt that TW has roasted this exact same Brazil, and I seriously doubt that he emulates this profile.

ken

Wow...why bother asking for feedback if you rudely shoot down those that reply?

Just askin'

Yeti wrote:Wow...why bother asking for feedback if you rudely shoot down those that reply?

Just askin'

Because it was non-responsive to what I posted. I said, and I could not have been more clear, that the coffee tasted very good, very chocolaty, from day 2 onward for a few days, post roast. Only after a period of further aging did the coffee acquire an acrid and smoky taste. The response given was that one needs to wait long enough for smokiness or CO2 to degass off the coffee before drinking it.

Sorry, that is not responsive to what I posted or what I asked about. It may have been a valid point about something, such as maybe don't drink the coffee right after it is roasted, but it was most definitely not responsive to the issue or questions I raised.

ken

Could the ash be causing a caustic reaction with the oils and such over time? Just another form of degradation along with oxygen and staling?