A local pro roaster takes his costa rica to a finish so that second crack is rolling as the coffe is dumped. Sounds like very rapid electrical sparks. BUT the beans dont look super dark, and the aroma later the same day is extremely sweet, literally like smelling a bag of marshmallows. The coffee tastes clean and sweet with nice acidity, and tastes good for even a few weeks after roasting.

When I try to roast the same green costa rica at home to such a rapid second crack, my roast ends up looking darker and has no sweetness in the aroma, just a pungent smell. The flavor is ok that day, but gets harsh and ashy in just a day or so.

Anyone have an idea how he gets into second crack like that and gets such sweet aroma, flavor and long shelf life?

Sounds like you were present at the roast you describe above. How long was the total roast time? In all likelyhood, it was more of how they set-up the roast BEFORE the cracks that made all the difference.

Also, what type of roaster are they using vs what type you are using to attempt to replicate this profile at home?

My DARK blend is always the sweetest smelling bean right out of the roaster. It makes the whole place smell like candy.

What I think Bryan means about the set-up is how long it takes to get through the stages leading to that rolling second. If you take 6 minutes to 300*, 5 minutes to 1C and then 6 minutes to rolling 2C you'll have a very different resulting aroma, appearance and flavor than if you take 4 minutes to 300*, 3.5 minutes to 1C and 4 minutes to rolling 2C.

Which one of the above profiles is going to have the sweeter aroma, the long one or the short one?

The "Central American" style is fairly low power and fairly low air throughout the roast. Charge temps are lowish -- and consistent with Honey and Natural process beans. All three intervals, Drying, Ramp, and Development are extended relative to what most of us consider normal. Times in the 18min - 20min range for FC/FC+ are not uncommon. The results are sweet and deep, but retain a fair amount of fruits and florals if not taken too deep into development. IMO, "rolling second" -- discounting a few seconds of snaps in the tray after Drop -- is too deep

You'd think that a profile is a profile, and it may well be. However, my experience is that this is a style I can accomplish consistently well with my Dalian, but so far have been unable to duplicate with my USRC.

Here's a plot for a profile which is as close as I can get to one of my Dalian roasts, without completely flattening the profile into "baked;" and cannot be further extended without severely muting the varietal characteristics of the coffee (Acatenango, El Rubi Honey, Elida Natural Reserve). 426F for that blend is a heart beat before the first snaps of 2d. I'd rate the finish as barely FC.



This roast was an experiment, even so none of the intervals deviated more than 4sec from its planned time. Overall, I prefer a livelier roast, and have no current plans to repeat it.

Hope this helps,
Rich

Mile High Roaster wrote:Which one of the above profiles is going to have the sweeter aroma, the long one or the short one?

The shorter one. I haven't experimented with the Central American style that Rich mentions but there's a long thread somewhere about it.

boar_d_laze wrote: IMO, "rolling second" -- discounting a few seconds of snaps in the tray after Drop -- is too deep

This is where the question really is for me. It is evident that "rolling second" can be developed in a way that puts a nice sweet finish on the beans without over darkening.

Sweet and dark aren't mutually exclusive.

Once you're in a drum roaster, and going slow enough for the interior of the bean to keep pace with the exterior, it doesn't matter which gas settings, amount of air flow, your minor variations equipment you use, rolling 2d will net you the same color (give or take a few units Agtron) every time.

Rolling 2dC is always within a few degrees of Agtron 45. Some people call that FC+, others Viennese, and others Light French. But no matter what subjective label it's still right around Agtron 45, which is as objective as you can get when talking about bean color. Given that you're talking about "rolling second," "over darkening" doesn't make a lot of sense. Rolling second is rolling second (as long as you're not going too fast).

When I say rolling 2d is "too dark for me," the operative words in that concept are "for me," rather than "too dark," as an expression of absolute darkness. What I dislike like about going into FC+/Vienna vs Dropping in the C+/FC range is the loss of fruits and florals. It's not about sweetness.

If you want to know the secret, shhhhhh, to a Central Amercan style roast it's roasting slow, without much airflow (except at certain strategic moments), while retaining appropriate ratios for the three intervals.

It's widely understood that darker roasts bear more of the hallmarks of the roaster, chocolate, nuts, and caramels; and lighter roasts of the bean's florals, fruits and herbals. Which sounds inherently sweeter? Chocolate, hazelnut, and caramel? Or, lemon?

As a sort of very rough rule of thumb, and within limits, darker roasts tend to be sweeter than lighter roasts; but you have to remember that some beans are inherently sweeter than others. In my experience, while "hot, fast and sweet" might be ideal profile to bring out the sweetness of some beans; low, slow and deep works better for others. The only way to figure out which works best for a given bean is to try both.

Rich

Are you sure you are not mistaking your local pro roasting ALOT of beans popping at 1st crack to what you may hear at 2nd crack of your own much smaller quantity of beans roasting?

Kind of makes alot more sense that that may be the case considering the long shelf life, sweet taste, and much lighter color than your 2nd crack roasting.

Len