1) I checked again today when I was at work -- move everything I said up a notch: 1.5-2.0, never more than 2.5.

2) I have never the problem(s) you seem to be experiencing. Sorry.

Is the grinder stock? No throat or deflector mods?

What weight of coffee are you dosing? Try doing 15g and adjusting the grind to give std volume in 30s

How oily is the coffee?

Ian,

1. Grinder is stock.
2. I have weighed out 14g-16g with a very light tamp and 20-30 second shot. Result: over-extraction, early blonding. I attribute this to channeling.
3. No surface oils on the coffee.

Thanks,
Ryan

What's your brew pressure?

The internal brew pressure gauge on the Andreja Premium reads about 9.2 BAR during the course of a shot, and against the blind filter. I do not have an external portafilter-mounted gauge.

I have been getting better results this morning using the Stockfleth's Move to even out the density of the puck. I think this confirms my feelings that bad distribution has been the culprit. So far, the Cimbali Max Hybrid takes more effort at puck preparation so far than my Mazzer Mini, which is a great disappointment to me.

I have a theory about the clumping: Micro-fines generated by the new burrs create cohesion between the coarser particles. I have run about 4 pounds of coffee through so far. Perhaps after 100 or 200 pounds, these burrs will be broken in enough to not produce clumps. I don't know if I have the patience to test that theory. Nor am I thrilled about having to become an expert at redistributing the puck by hand.

I am getting repeatable results at the moment at a 16g dose, which seems to be just the right headroom for my e61 grouphead. I'm grinding at 2.25 from "true zero." The grind is still clumpy so I am using the Stockfleth's Move.

The taste is very similar to the Mini. But I'm having to work harder for it.

portamento wrote:I am getting repeatable results at the moment at a 16g dose, which seems to be just the right headroom for my e61 grouphead. I'm grinding at 2.25 from "true zero." The grind is still clumpy so I am using the Stockfleth's Move.

The taste is very similar to the Mini. But I'm having to work harder for it.

If that is the case, there is something wrong with either your coffee, your equipment, or your technique. The grinds that come out of the Max Hybrid, like those that come out of a commercial conical, are in an altogether different league than what comes out of a Mazzer Mini.

Properly ground Max grinds are incredibly easy to deal with; the machine is hugely less finicky as regards grind setting than a planar grinder in the class of a MM, and the resultant beverages are consistently better (this is not to say that the best shot you will ever get out of a MM is worse than your average shot out of the Max, however your best shots out of a MM class grinder will be few and far between).

ken

I'm glad you joined the conversation, Ken. Posts by you and Jason were hugely influential in my purchase decision.

It is hard to compare our experiences since you home roast and I suspect our taste expectations diverge. Most of my espresso exposure has been of the "third wave" cafe variety, using commercial roasts and medium-high doses. The Mazzer Mini recreates that experience pretty well. But I was obviously intrigued by your conviction that there is a painless way to get smooth, drinkable Italian-style espresso by dosing lower, grinding finer, and using an excellent conical or hybrid burr set like the one on the Cimbali.

You almost had a convert on your hands. But here's the thing. The Cimbali clumps terribly. The clumps are persistent and sticky at coarser settings, and even more so at fine settings. And try as I might to ignore the clumps, the water column sure as hell knows the difference because the resultant channeling is undeniable. Extra headroom via low dosing was not enough to compensate.

Perhaps you could offer a bit of advice:

• Could you suggest a commercially-available coffee that is similar to your home roast or that you think would shine at low doses on the CMH?
• Could you tell me whether your Cimbali Maxes ever clump and under what circumstances you feel that does or does not detract from your result?
• What's a typical temperature profile for you? Do you favor Italian-style temperatures as well, say in the 90-91c range?

Thanks,
Ryan

portamento wrote: Any "getting started" tips from loyal Cimbali Max users?

Buy three to four pounds of supermarket coffee, grind it through. I don't use this grinder, but none of these big boys works well until the burrs are seasoned.

portamento wrote:It is hard to compare our experiences since you home roast and I suspect our taste expectations diverge. Most of my espresso exposure has been of the "third wave" cafe variety, using commercial roasts and medium-high doses. The Mazzer Mini recreates that experience pretty well. But I was obviously intrigued by your conviction that there is a painless way to get smooth, drinkable Italian-style espresso by dosing lower, grinding finer, and using an excellent conical or hybrid burr set like the one on the Cimbali.

You almost had a convert on your hands. But here's the thing. The Cimbali clumps terribly. The clumps are persistent and sticky at coarser settings, and even more so at fine settings. And try as I might to ignore the clumps, the water column sure as hell knows the difference because the resultant channeling is undeniable. Extra headroom via low dosing was not enough to compensate.

Perhaps you could offer a bit of advice:

• Could you suggest a commercially-available coffee that is similar to your home roast or that you think would shine at low doses on the CMH?
• Could you tell me whether your Cimbali Maxes ever clump and under what circumstances you feel that does or does not detract from your result?
• What's a typical temperature profile for you? Do you favor Italian-style temperatures as well, say in the 90-91c range?

Thanks,
Ryan

Hi Ryan,

I would first take Jim's advice and run some coffee through the grinder, which may improve things.

I don't have an Andreja Premium, but I know it to be a good machine and in fact have local friends who bought one based upon my recommendation.

I have 3 Maxs. The two I use the most are the original Max's on which I have defeated the autogrind, and removed the trap door. The 3rd Max is a hybrid-Chris Coffee model, which (like yours, I'd imagine) is housed in the body of the Junior. The Chris Coffee model has the advantage of being smaller, however it is clearly noisier, and in all honesty I prefer the adjustment knob/mechanism on the original Maxs to the one on Chris Coffee model (although both work fine). The location of the Chris Coffee Max in my kitchen, under a counter, makes refilling the hopper a little more of a PITA than the other two, which are on my large kitchen island. As a result of the above, I probably use the original Maxs at least twice as much as I use the Chris Coffee model.

The grind results I get from the 3 Maxs are indistinguishable, at least to me. I do not get any significant clumping from any of these grinders, nor any more clumping with my Compak K10 WBC conical. I do live in a dry climate, and my coffees are generally not roasted to the very end of 1st crack, plus, they are most typically dry processed Africans, with a few others thrown in for good measure. I also do not let coffee hang around all that long; 10 days past the roast date the coffee might go into a milk drink, but generally by around day 12, whatever is left gets pitched.

In order to get a good extraction with the 14g of coffee that I tend to use, per double shot, the grind has to be rather fine. I virtually never use more than 15g of coffee for espresso anymore. I don't really know how much clumping I'd get at coarser grinds, but I doubt I'd get much. I say this because I used to dose at 18 or 19g with my Junior grinders, and I didn't notice any clumping with those, either, although the average shot from the Junior grinders was wholly inferior.

As to commercially available roasts, I'm really at a loss to suggest anything since the SO coffees I use for espresso are generally not widely available, and they tend to come from places like Klatch or occasionally the green bean coop. I don't know how Klatch roasts those coffees, because they are probably not roasting them for espresso use (being as they are SOs), and I don't know what level they'd pick for what they think their customers are going to use. That being said, I think you could find something, I just don't know where. If you want to try using less coffee per dose, then don't buy those blends that are designed to be updosed, because they will taste like dishwater at ~14g. Instead, try to find a blend that is more lightly roasted and that strives more for balance than for an "in your face" experience.

Most of my espresso extractions are done at around 198F, somewhat humped above that at the start, so a few degrees higher than 90-91C.

Hopefully something in my post will help.