I can't help but notice that between HB and many of the coffee blogs out there, there seems to be a growing frustration with the obvious lack of high-quality grinders for non-espresso coffee preparation.

There are the Baratza-class grinders (Maestro and Virtuoso and similar from other manufacturers), and there are Mahlkonig-class grinders (Guatemala, Ditting 805, maybe Bunn G1, etc.). The former are great because they fit most of our home countertops and are relatively affordable. The latter are great because they are built like tanks and do an outstanding job at producing an even grind. The problem is that there is no middle-ground between the two ends of the spectrum. What we most need is a well built, relatively small grinder (Mazzer Mini seems like a good cutoff point) for a reasonable amount of money (I'd think that under $500 would be a good starting point) that delivers a very even grind with minimal fines, preferably leaving minimal residual grounds internally.

The first question is: does such a thing exist now? I would argue that it does not.

The next questions is: is there significant demand for such a product so as to push manufacturers to develop such a thing? This question is probably open to debate, but I think that if it were built of a high enough quality for commercial use, yet were inexpensive enough for prosumer use that there would be a solid market for it.

The final question is: what's stopping it from being made? I don't have anything like an answer for this.

The cheapest Bunn, the LPG (low profile grinder), is about $500. It is designed to sit next to a Bunn coffee machine and grind for it. Same burrs as the G models, but a lighter duty motor. It is ugly, but will do the job with minor modifications. Given that the world wide demand for a high end brew grinders for the home is about 1000 to 10000 units at best, I think ebay and/or modding something like this are your best bets for now.

For cupping use, this grinder needs to be modified (the G1 - G3 do not), since the existing hopper allows small amounts of beans to popcorn badly.

Grinding for Cupping: When cupping, it is customary to leave the grinder running, and dump in each pre-weighed cup's worth of beans into the hopper one after the other. The first cup from each sample coffee gets dumped, and from then on, each prior cup is used to catch the next cup's ground beans For instance, if you are trying three 5 ounce cups of each coffee, you would set up four cups for each, with 8.5 grams of whole beans in each them. You would sacrifice the first cup's grind, then catch the second cup's grind in the first, the third cup's in the second, etc. The procedure requires a grinder that feeds single doses of coffee without popcorning.

A true "titan" non-espresso grinder should be able to work as a lab grinder, not just as a bulk grinder for stale supermarket coffee. It should work well in the above scenario. If it does, you can be fairly certain that it will do well in any use you may have in store for it.

But if you want something that actually looks acceptable in a home kitchen, I think it might be a long way off.

I've looked on flea-ce bay for a Bunn just for my a.m. vacpot and they are really fugly. Its not to difficult to put together a wood box (oak etc.) to hide it when not in use.

Marvin

I've been starting to try to understand grinders. I have a question: Is there any evidence that a fancy grinder is necessary or even beneficial for drip coffee?

I can understand the need for a fast grinder in a commercial setting, but for home use, fast isn't very important. So are there definitely taste differences between a, say, "titan" and a good hand grinder, or even a Gaggia MDF?

I'm a bit skeptical, because I have for the last two weeks switched from espresso to drip, and have been using several different grinders. I haven't yet noticed a huge difference between a Gaggia MDF, a Rossi 45 (I know, Jim, they are worse than grinding with the heel of your boot on the sidewalk), an Arcade cranked grinder and a Spong crank grinder.

For espresso, however, that is another story altogether.

I am going to put some good bearings on a couple old grinders and see what that does.

I'm also wondering how a slow speed grinder using a special power supply (inverter) and 3-phase motor would do with commercial conical burrs (say Robur). I use these type of motors to power my lathes, and they work very well, but probably haven't found their way into Italian grinder technology. In fact, one of those 3-phase titans could be driven with an inverter quite nicely on 220 single phase and you'd have variable speed built in!

I have a vague idea that in a home setting a grinder using good conical burrs and a slow (200-300 rpm) spin might be quite good. Again, just guessing at this point, but I think that the high speeds don't so much damage the grind by heat, but by fracturing the bean (sort of like pop corning), causing multi sized particles. This could be solved by slowing it down considerably, which might explain why hand grinders seem to work despite obviously less than sharp burrs.

dan

DJR wrote: ... a Rossi 45 (I know, Jim, they are worse than grinding with the heel of your boot on the sidewalk)

No idea how good the RR45 tastes; just that it is the "most hate to use" grinder. I've avoided them due to their miserable reputation, so I don't even know what makes them so obnoxious.

I hate mine! I don't know exactly why. I just hate it and if it "broke" I'd have an excuse to buy one i didn't hate. I think it's the noise and grind retention. The actual powder seems fine.

Hi

Here are some ideas.

I think it is a bout the design of the burrs. Meanwhile in espresso you want the right amount of fines (other intermediate particles may play a role) to obtain the right flavor, in drip you want the minimum amount of fines to avoid bitterness. Two different goals. This is achieved by the design of the burrs and their sharpness. To me, the goal of the espresso burrs is more complex. The goal of a drip grinder burrs is more straight forward and easier to measure.

In espresso you don't want the blades (sharp edges of burrs) to be very sharp, meanwhile in drip you want the blades to be as sharp as possible. Sharp blades help to avoid fines or help to get a more uniform (more sharp) particle distribution. With the right grinder setting appropriate for the method of preparation, sharpness of burrs help with extraction.

Just like in espresso, in drip the grinder should also be calibrated. But since there are many more options of coffee preparation in drip, this may not be straight forward. Some people would be more willing to change temp or dose rather change the grinder settings. Method of preparation, Temperature, dose, amount of water, stirring, grinder burrs, and grinder setting, make all a difference.

There may be already very good cheap home friendly drip grinders (since the design is easier than for espresso) but maybe there is not enough info.

For example this one "looks" good. It is hard to judge by the looks

http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-Line-B...723&sr=8-1

Pic of the burrs here:

http://www.amazon.com/KITCHENAID-KPCGBP...B001E0WFV2


Cheers

Mark Prince did a first look on this when it was initially released. It looks good for fp.
http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/firstlook/kitchenaidprolinegrinder

Marvin

http://www.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?f=...cae9d7d152

Not everybody is as impressed as Mark Prince it seems.

Thanks for that link. It looks like it works like the GrindMaster I have at work. The Grindmaster is best for grind settings above espresso (most uniform) but at coarse settings does not do a good job. But the burrs are very different so I can not make a fair comparison.

Cheers