I've been looking hard at getting a Baratza Vario not only for its timer but for its other features and I just want a secondary grinder as well. I've read good things about the grinder and think it may serve as a back-up nicely.

My questions for this discussion are:

1) Is a timer better suited than a scale for dosing in the home consistently? Specifically in the 12-16 gram range.

2) What variables in a timer's application must be considered when using a timer over a scale (does a timer have to set-up a certain way, are there important differences, is the Vario set-up effectively)?

3) Which if either is better, again in a home setting and looking for reasonably consistent dosing, more consistent than my current over-fill, level and tamp routine?

4) When if ever is a scale more desired?

I'd like to get an easier method to end up with a dose of less that 16-19 grams that I typically get with my current volume dosing. The apparent simplicity of a timed grind appeals to me over the added step of weighing before pulling my shot. I understand that with time and practice I shouldn't need to rely on a timer or scale, but in the interim which would be better suited? I figure I'm looking for a spare grinder anyways, is the Baratza Vario's timer really that effective (I've never used a timed grinder)? Is it better than relying on a scale as I develop my lower dosing methods?

I'm happy with my current dosing method but feel somewhat limited in an ability to dose lower in an easy fashion. I'd like to have the option to explore the 12-16 gram range as well as higher. Like I've said my current volume dosing method results in the upper dosing ranges, which works for some coffees but not all of them.

Thank you for any insight you may offer.

Use both.

Timers help with repeatability; that is, some of them do--the ones that are that effective. The Vario is such a timer; it's remarkably consistent during a session, and pretty decent over a few days with a coffee, requiring only minor tweaks as the beans age and the temperature and humidity change. It is somewhat sensitive to grind changes, naturally (some timer-grinders are EXTREMELY sensitive to grind changes), so you will have to be mindful of that, or simply avoid changing your grind by making setting your base grind/dose and then making fine adjustments to your dose, using the timer to tweak shot times, instead. Of course, adjusting your shots in this manner means you need to be mindful of whether your dose gets too high or too low for the coffee you're using; you could end up with issues like over- or under-extraction, or just not enough headspace. In practice, you notice this excessive drift, either by looking at the mound of coffee when it's dosed or when you've tamped it and the piston goes down too far/not far enough. Then you make a grind adjustment to compensate and tweak the timer to get the right shot time. I've been using this on the Vario and the Nino, and I like it. In my experience, I usually decide to change my dose significantly (requiring a grind adjustment) or change coffees well before I drift out of the range of the grind I've chosen.

But, I also weigh my baskets almost all the time, just to make a mental note of the dose and how consistent it is. I have a larger scale that I can rest the entire portafilter on, and I tare it for quick weighing. I find that doing this has helped me get a better feel for the pitfalls of adjustment and a sense of scale so I can dial in a coffee faster. Eventually the scale goes away, when you either learn to dose visually/by hand as consistently, or you learn how to adjust your timer in a useful manner. But until then you need the scale, and of course it's great to have for re-calibrating yourself or just seeing where you're at. You'll want this if you're trying to replicate a roaster's recipe (18.5g at 199°F), or you want to tell someone what dose you like blend x at without talking out of your behind.

Again, why the vs.? They're perfect companions. And scales are (or can be) so cheap they're an afterthought.

The Vario has very little grind retention and single doses very effectively without removing the hopper. When I was testing it I simply weighed the beans in -- no waste and very consistent. The only other grinder where this worked as consistently was the Versalab. I never did use the timer at all.

Jim/Tim....I did some fairly exhaustive(albeit tasty) testing with the Vario, comparing shots weighed by the dose (single dose, double 14 grams), versus 1/2 filling the hopper, setting the timer and grind, weighing a couple till I had 14 grams nailed (+/- .2 grams). Though admittedly not blind tasting/tasting, in nearly all cases I liked the shots from the filled hopper slightly more overall, and the pours were a bit more consistent time wise as well.(YMMV)

I also like having my little Polder electronic scale near me, especially when changing bean choice.
I'll miss this Vario when the owner claims it tomorrow.

shadowfax wrote:Again, why the vs.?

Because I simply don't know (having not used a timer grinder yet) if it would indeed replace the need for a scale or not. I'm not so much looking to declare one superior to the other but rather want to learn what interplay they may have together in ones barista tool box. I do appreciate the insights.

Hello, I never spent time adjusting the timers on my Mazzer MiniE. Theres a 2 cup, 1 cup, and manual buttons. As noted, different roasts and grinds will affect the timers accuracy, so I would grind into the basket useing any combination of the buttons, and then weigh it - working the manual button to make any small changes.
I used to weigh the beans first and grind only that amount. So I think the timer and scale go hand in hand.
One way would require having beans in the hopper with partially ground beans always in the grind path - some users don't like that. - Dennis

My primary hope is consistency over the period of a day or two. Understanding fully that coffee ages and the needed adjustments to compensate. And not overly concerned with knowing exactly what the dose is as long as I can come close to replicating it for the next shot. Again a lot of this comes from my inexepericence with timer grinders and a reluctance to use a scale everytime.

TimEggers wrote:And not overly concerned with knowing exactly what the dose is as long as I can come close to replicating it for the next shot.

As with many things espresso, "close enough" is subject to interpretation.

For one data point, I offer my notes on the Mazzer Mini Electronic's consistency of the single dose: 8.2, 8.6, 7.9, 8.3, 8.0, 8.5 grams. Mazzer took the trouble of filing a patent with the claim "an accurate amount of ground coffee is discharged from the funnel into a conventional filter holder", so evidently they think they have a better mousetrap when it comes to consistency. Even so, the range (7.9 min to 8.6 max) is much greater than the barely 0.1 gram variance easily accomplished with a scale.

This was measured with a well-filled hopper and the first one or two shots were discarded. I haven't done the same test for the Vario, but will if someone else hasn't already.

Dan...I did so a just a while back. Discarded the first grind. 3 successive timed grinds (12.0 seconds) were within .3 gram, as long as the hopper is 1/3 full, this seems to be pretty much a very consistent thing.

Curious, is .5-gram or even .3-gram readily noticeable in the shot? I wouldn't think I'm that consistent with volume dosing but I've not weighed only tasted. So far it seems to taste pretty consistent, suppose I should just bite the bullet and get a dosing scale too...

Clearly I could answer my own question of what variance I can actually taste with a scale.