So.. I just read that even the renowned K30 took one owner 30lbs before achieving consistent shots. While this is a bit disconcerting, the topic I'm interested in is why the amount of beans vary so much from owners' account to account? I understand some burrs have different coatings that can lengthen the time it takes, but the issue poses a question: Wouldn't seasoning the burrs with a very tight grind setting reduce the quantity needed?

Logically that would make more sense as the cutting faces and edges are exposed to a greater overall surface area (or maybe vice versa), and it was, in my case with the 83mm TiN burr set in my HG-1 I seasoned years ago. The burrs were not preseasoned, but only required 5 lbs of beans before all of the extraction issues had subsided. I recall grinding the beans to a fairly fine powder that would definitely choke any machine, but it was hardly close to turkish.

So by this notion, if I ground them to turkish, it would have taken 1/3 the beans in the same amount of time, but would have been equally effective?

weebit_nutty wrote:So.. I just read that even the renowned K30 took one owner 30lbs before achieving consistent shots. While this is a bit disconcerting, the topic I'm interested in is why the amount of beans vary so much from owners' account to account?

30lbs is a lot. If they were stock I'm guessing they had another unknown problem going on.

With my Versalab (similar size flat burr to a K30) it's only taken a few pounds before things settle down (2 burr changes).

TiN would take longer if not pre-seasoned. Not sure how long though.

nickw wrote:30lbs is a lot. If they were stock I'm guessing they had another unkown problem going on.

With my Versalab (similar size flat burr to a K30) it's only taken a few pounds before things settle down (2 burr change).

I wouldn't make that assumption. You have a completely different hybrid burr set.

Even so, just because two burrs are 65, it doesn't mean they are the same.

It took way more than 5 lb to maximize my old hg one tin burrs. Maybe the extractions evened out but not the taste. I imagine this to be very subjective. Hg one mentioned finer grinds breaking in faster but that it's not worth the effort torturing yourself (or the motor I suppose).

The ultimate answer to your question is also highly subjective as it's not just based on how the shot looks, but how it tastes. This taste also varies by person

brianl wrote:I wouldn't make that assumption. You have a completely different hybrid burr set.

Even so, just because two burrs are 65, it doesn't mean they are the same.

Fair enough. It just seems high. I'll ask Kyle from Mahl USA.

weebit_nutty wrote:So.. I just read that even the renowned K30 took one owner 30lbs before achieving consistent shots. While this is a bit disconcerting, the topic I'm interested in is why the amount of beans vary so much from owners' account to account? I understand some burrs have different coatings that can lengthen the time it takes, but the issue poses a question: Wouldn't seasoning the burrs with a very tight grind setting reduce the quantity needed?

Logically that would make more sense as the cutting faces and edges are exposed to a greater overall surface area (or maybe vice versa), and it was, in my case with the 83mm TiN burr set in my HG-1 I seasoned years ago. The burrs were not preseasoned, but only required 5 lbs of beans before all of the extraction issues had subsided. I recall grinding the beans to a fairly fine powder that would definitely choke any machine, but it was hardly close to turkish.

So by this notion, if I ground them to turkish, it would have taken 1/3 the beans in the same amount of time, but would have been equally effective?

I havent done any turkish grind myself, but have read from several reputable members here on HB that the Pharos requires significantly LESS force to turn at the Turkish grind level. If that is true I would assume that burr break-in rates would be more parabolic than linear, and that both grind fineness and force required to break the beans would be relevant in how quickly the burrs were seasoned.

In addition, as I understand it burr seasoning is really only necessary because the edges are not well finished. There are nicks, knobs, whatamadoodles, etc wrong with the cutting surface (maybe even just inconsistent sharpness from blade to blade?) and they get worn down quickly until the burr edges are sharp and consistent from blade to blade. It would only stand to reason that such inconsistencies would naturally vary significantly from burr to burr. Many might be around that 10lb range, even less if a really fine grind, is applied or just a good finish was done, but since we are talking about trying to make up for poor manufacturing practices there is no reason why a different set of burrs might not need much more to find that consistent cutting pattern from edge to edge.

http://www.jimseven.com/2011/06/15/dear ... facturers/

day wrote:I havent done any turkish grind myself, but have read from several reputable members here on HB that the Pharos requires significantly LESS force to turn at the Turkish grind level.

Larger burrs are invariably harder to grind with than smaller ones, given the greater combined cutting surface, and thus more torque is needed to drive the burrs. It's the reason why big burrs require big motors.

My issue with the Pharos has always been about it's ergonomics. It's literally the worse possible coffee grinder there is in that regard. (the Lido 2 follows closely though)... But back to the topic at hand.


Here's another thing I wonder about is whether it would be beneficial to use a variety of roasts instead just one.

I meant less force than espresso on the Pharos. That force required increased as grind goes finer but at some point the grind becomes so fine that it takes longer and becomes easier. I will test it tonight if I remember.

Lighter beans would make a lot of sense

(Since I love my Pharos: once stabilized by bench dog equivalents and especially if grinding over a small hole directly into a portafilter it is super easy on ergonomics.)

I do believe I was the owner he is referring to that said it took 30 lbs to season their k30 burrs. It took way less than that to season them for optimum taste. I would say after 5-10 lbs the taste was on point and settled in. It did take 30 lbs to get very consistent shots. I am in a commercial setting, so I am talking about back to back shots being a consistent 17.5 grams every time with a variance of +\- 2grams. Before running 30lbs thru the k30 the shots seem to vary a lot using the timed dosing.

So that's what I was referring to as far as seasoning. Consistency and not flavor.

I heard back from Kyle from Mahlkonig.

He said with all WBC grinders (K30, Peak and Ek43) the burrs come pre seasoned.

New burrs it can take a while to settle down. He didn't say how long (as it varies) but said it should happen pretty quick.

He also mentioned if the dose is off (which you didn't) it's likely power, not the burrs (sometimes people think it's the burrs).
As the grind by time depends on the speed of the motor, which depends on the voltage of your power. So if you voltage isn't stable, the amount of coffee your grinder doses given a certain time will change.

Hope this helps.

nickw wrote:I heard back from Kyle from Mahlkonig.

He said with all WBC grinders (K30, Peak and Ek43) the burrs come pre seasoned.

New burrs it can take a while to settle down. He didn't say how long (as it varies) but said it should happen pretty quick.

He also mentioned if the dose is off (which you didn't) it's likely power, not the burrs (sometimes people think it's the burrs).
As the grind by time depends on the speed of the motor, which depends on the power. So if you power isn't stable, amount of coffee your grinder doses. And if your doses size wanders - without you noticing - there would of course be the related issues.

Hope this helps.

Wow this is an insanely informative post. I had no idea the burrs were preseasoned. As I said before, the taste has been the same almost from the get go of me running 5 lbs thru it before trying a shot. The shot variance was all over the place for the first few weeks but now seems to have calmed down and is 98% of the time perfect. I never, not once, thought about power being a factor in variance. How would I check my power source for fluctuations? Or is there a way around it... Would simply plugging into a high dollar surge protector going to combat a variance in power to the grinder?