cafeIKE wrote:It's my belief that only after the 3rd single or 2nd double grind, is the grinder sufficiently cleared of the previous coffee or grind residue to accurately evaluate the new coffee.

(WARNING: "AUDIO ANALOGY" FOLLOWS)

I think of this as the "square wave performance" of a grinder: after a step change, how long does it take for the change to be fully apparent in the beverage? (The step change can be either a grind adjustment or a change in coffee blend).

A grinder like the Versalab has excellent square wave performance. The Robur, not so good....

(Hey, at least it wasn't another WINE analogy!)

So then Andy, do grinders have odd harmonics? Or just odd operators?

-Cecil

Whale wrote:I had read that thread on retention before but couldn't find it again because for some reason I really thought that the word retention was in the title... Cannot convince myself to brutalise my grinder "a la Psyd".

Hunh-wha?!? Whaddido?

I think that it's time for a definition of 'considerable'. 'None' isn't quite accurate, and, 'a whole lotta, effecting the coffees that you will drink for the rest of your life' is an obvious over-exaggeration.
My Rockies steal about a tenth of a gram or less. The majors come up short of what I fed them once a week, maybe, at a tenth. Being as my scale isn't measuring anything smaller than .1g, I'd suppose that I'm seeing somewhat less than a tenth of a gram, and occasionally I'm closer to one end of that measure than the other, and it ticks over.
All in all, I'm not going to waste anywhere from ten to fifteen percent (and as much as fifty percent by some's reckonings) per doppio to make sure that I've purge that last .3%. If I were the golden palate that could taste the difference, sure, I might do it.

Comparing shots that I've purged and shots that I've swept (while not blind, or meticulously scientific about it*) shows me that I'm happy with both. Being happy with both, I choose the easier/cheaper solution.


For those that would suggest that I could influence my results by the power of suggestion, just by wanting my method to be adequate, I submit that as long as I can do that on a daily basis, I'll be damned happy with my results.

Do your own test. On your last shot of the day, sweep out your chute and pulse your grinder, tip it on it's nose if you have to. The next morning, dose two shots. The first will have whatever remnants are from the night before, and the second will have 'fresh' grounds.
If you like the first as well as the second, you're a sweeper.
If you like the second better, you're a purger.
It really is that simple, isn't it?

AndyS wrote:(Hey, at least it wasn't another WINE analogy!)

Although I do appreciate the odd audio analogy; what is wrong with the wine analogy!?

AndyS wrote:A grinder like the Versalab has excellent square wave performance. The Robur, not so good....

I my understanding (never add the chance to use one), what the M3 is really good at (in the context of our discussion) is not retainning any grind (or very little).

But, as Michael and I theorise that the oil leftover may be as important , if not more, than the grind left over, this would mean that the M3 would still lag in the response (meaning not square). Of course, for my part this is just a theory because I haven't formally isolated the effect of grind and oil taste transfer.

Maybe a grinder like the M3 would be close to ideal to do an evaluation of the effect of the oil taste transfer theory (as it is still only a theory for some). Certainly my MD40 is awful for this, at least in semi-normal usage. Remnant Grind varies a lot with change of beans. I would have to completely open and empty the chamber for every bean type to do a valid taste test.

Maybe tomorrow I'll give a try.

Psyd wrote:If you like the first as well as the second, you're a sweeper.
If you like the second better, you're a purger.

Does that make me a sweeping, purging sinker or a sinking, purging sweeper or

Psyd wrote:Whale wrote:
I had read that thread on retention before but couldn't find it again because for some reason I really thought that the word retention was in the title... Cannot convince myself to brutalise my grinder "a la Psyd".



Hunh-wha?!? Whaddido?

Sorry Chris. This was only meant to be a cheaky wink at what at been written in the One-shot-grind-remnants. Poll : One Shot Grind Remnants and was not directed at you in any way. I just thought that "brutalise a la Psyd" was cute.

CRCasey wrote:So then Andy, do grinders have odd harmonics? Or just odd operators?

You and I both are regular readers of this forum, so the answer to your second question is obvious.

Whale wrote:Although I do appreciate the odd audio analogy; what is wrong with the wine analogy!?

We need analogies that are more original than the wine, audio and car analogies!

AndyS wrote:We need analogies that are more original than the wine, audio and car analogies!

Man, you're making it hard! No coffee of course, no cars, no audio, no wine... There is not much more in my life other than women (I am married so I should write woman). But I can't make any anlogies with women... I just do not understand any of them!

Well considering the level of true understanding you may have hit on it.

-C

Psyd wrote:If you like the first as well as the second, you're a sweeper.
If you like the second better, you're a purger.
It really is that simple, isn't it?

Yeah! Call me Robespierre!

AndyS wrote:We need analogies that are more original than the wine, audio and car analogies!

What? Like religion?

Or, maybe not

Happy New Year!