First off, I do not think anyone was saying that you did not perceive a carryover of tastes in your testing.

But... (saw that coming didn't ya)

There is a simple reason a lot of the tests suggested are blind tastings, or as Jim does, a triangle tasting. That is to try and limit the element of suggestion from the results. Did suggestion add any to what you were tasting? I could not say even if I had been sitting next to you. With two coffees you have been working closely on I would suspect that you could easily note the changes.

-Cecil

Ken Fox wrote:I think we have the makings of a very simple and somewhat elegant experiment that could be easily performed by anyone who owns an accurate scale, a grinder, and access to differentially roasted beans.

BTDT. from Poll : One Shot Grind Remnants



When changing coffees, no taste adjustment is made until after the 3rd single shot. Single refers to shot volume, not 1-shot grinder dose.

CRCasey wrote:But... (saw that coming didn't ya)

So much so that I made it happen!!

CRCasey wrote:Did suggestion add any to what you were tasting? I could not say even if I had been sitting next to you. With two coffees you have been working closely on I would suspect that you could easily note the changes.

Indeed, the difference in the two coffees was so strong that I have no doubt that suggestion had little to do with me detecting it. One more argument for this is as the taste of the Yergacheffe is calming down the taste transfer is less distinct, still present but less. But don't take my word for it! Tomorrow I am openning a bag of Epic espresso from 49th Parallel. Will see if the transfer is still as easily distinctive.

cafeIKE wrote:When changing coffees, no taste adjustment is made until after the 3rd single shot.

May I ask what you meant here? am not questioning the statement I just don't understand the meaning of it? Maybe a language or a lack of experience thing?

I'm surprised more people aren't reporting taste carryover.

i can certainly detect it whatever dosing mode I'm using. Usually a few singles are enough for me to note the transition from first bean to "blend" to new bean has been completed. But there was one occasion when a truly revolting oily, dark-roasted, robusta blend required around 100g of the admittedly delicate Mexican SO that followed it to truly get rid of all of the burnt rubber taste. Had I realised it would take this long, I would have used Grindz. I think this carryover is stronger with oily beans and has more to do with oils on the burr surfaces than grind retention. Grassy beans and forest-floor earthy beans also seem to carry over more.

I've experienced this with the Nino, Super Jolly and even Lehnartz hand grinder. All of these of course have metal burrs. It could be the case that it occurs less with ceramic burrs if they are less porous to the oils.

Cheers

Mike

michaelbenis wrote:I'm surprised more people aren't reporting taste carryover.

It would be interesting to see blinded taste testing for this.

JonR10 write: It would be interesting to see blinded taste testing for this.

That would certainly add to the excitement!

Now, what about the protocol: Do we get blinded for noticing carryover or for not noticing it?

michaelbenis wrote:Do we get blinded for noticing carryover or for not noticing it?

yes.

Whale wrote:May I ask what you meant here? am not questioning the statement I just don't understand the meaning of it? Maybe a language or a lack of experience thing?

Depending on the grinder, when using a [mini] hopper and changing coffees, considerable coffee can remain in the grind chamber after the hopper is empty, pulsed and swept clean.

So : If the coffee is similar, 1st single shot is ground and tested for flow. If it's close, it may be sampled for taste. If it appears no grinder adjustment is necessary to correct flow, 2nd shot is pulled and tasted. Finally the 3rd shot is pulled and fully evaluated for flavor and feel.

If considerable grinder adjustment is necessary for flow, taste evaluation begins on 3rd shot after flow parameters are in the ballpark.

It's my belief that only after the 3rd single or 2nd double grind, is the grinder sufficiently cleared of the previous coffee or grind residue to accurately evaluate the new coffee.

Thank you Ian.
Seems that the "taste transfer debate" is a none issue for you!

I had read that thread on retention before but couldn't find it again because for some reason I really thought that the word retention was in the title... Cannot convince myself to brutalise my grinder "a la Psyd".

michaelbenis wrote:I think this carryover is stronger with oily beans and has more to do with oils on the burr surfaces than grind retention. Grassy beans and forest-floor earthy beans also seem to carry over more.

Although the oil is probably a major contributor in the taste transfer, looking at the picture posted by Ian above, the grind "remnants" are probably not negligeable either.

Whale wrote: Although the oil is probably a major contributor in the taste transfer, looking at the picture posted by Ian above, the grind "remnants" are probably not negligeable either.

Oh, absolutely: no doubt about it. But if it was only grind retention then it would in my opinion carry over less... far

Cheers

Mike