Should I expect binding w/low (<8) Baratza Preciso settings?

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davestar
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#1: Post by davestar »

I've had a Baratza Preciso for a few years but never took it below a setting of 16 or so because I was only doing pourover at home. Well, I got an espresso machine today so I had occasion to spin the hopper down to the espresso range. The Preciso manual suggests 4C as an average espresso grind, so that's what I did:

With an empty hopper I turned on the motor (as recommended) and adjusted down to 4C. The burrs rotated freely. Then I added 15 grams of coffee and tried to run the grinder again, but the motor didn't have enough torque to start chopping. It wasn't until I loosened the burr set to a 9 or higher that I was able to grind again.

I've forgotten where I set the internal adjustment screw, but even if it's in the "fine" position I wouldn't expect it to be binding at an 8... or should I? This is literally the first time I've used a grinder for espresso, so I'm not quite sure what to expect. Is it par for the course to encounter binding when dialing in a coffee? Or is there something wrong with the grinder?

Thanks for taking a look.

samuellaw178
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#2: Post by samuellaw178 »

Every grinder has different calibration so it's difficult to compare, especially if you had changed it before. But I have not had that(burr not turning) happened to me. I would be careful not to do that as it may burn the motor.

Without beans, try adjusting the grinder finer step by step. Do you notice any burrs rubbing sound at any point? That's your grinder's 'zero' for reference and we can at least know if binding is expected or not at setting 8.

I assume you're using your pourover beans for this espresso grinding? That may be another problem too. Pour over beans tends to be hard dense little 'rocks' and Preciso doesn't work well with these at all.

Another thing you can try is - instead of starting the grinder with beans in, try pouring your weighted beans while the grinder is turning.

Maybe your grinder upgrade is due faster than you expected. :P

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nickw
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#3: Post by nickw »

How many lbs have gone through the current burrs? They could be dull.

Nate42
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#4: Post by Nate42 »

As mentioned, the numbers can vary a lot. On mine, I need to turn all the way down to 1 for espresso, and I know for most people its much higher.

Any grinder will bind up if you try to grind too fine. my wife had a nasty habit of doing this to our mazzer mini, so even more powerful grinders aren't immune. Once it does bind up, the burrs get compacted with very fine grinds and don't work effectively, so its also normal that you had to turn it a lot coarser before it freed up. In fact, you still probably have your burrs all gunked up, cleaning it with some grindz or some minute rice (on a drip setting so as not to overly strain the grinder) is a good idea. Or you could just take it apart and clean it.

Once its clean, I bet you'll find you can safely grind lower than 8, but don't worry about the number, worry if you can pull a decent shot. If you truly can't grind fine enough for espresso without binding up, then you have a problem. Could be the burrs are dull as mentioned. Could also be a problem with the burr carriers, they are plastic and will eventually wear or break. Baratza has a trouble shooting guide on their website you should follow.

Good luck.

davestar (original poster)
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#5: Post by davestar (original poster) »

whoops, i replied earlier today but it didn't post for some reason.

one thing i forgot to mention before - when i grind at the lowest possible setting (an 11), the grounds aren't fine enough for espresso. 40+ grams extracted in 10 seconds.

so, would burrs rubbing be a particularly loud/painful sound? or barely discernible over the sound of the motor? when i tighten the burrs with the (empty-hopper) machine running, either the motor gets a bit louder or the burrs start rubbing at around 2. when i add beans to the hopper, the motor starts intermittently straining and binding at 11 and fails to move at all below 5. i opened the machine to poke around, but everything seems in order (no loose wires, cracks in components, or anything. i cleaned the burrs as well, but it had only been a couple months since i last cleaned them so the buildup wasn't an issue. a problem with the motor itself is the only thing that i can think of that fits.

i was using a home roasted blend of Rwandan and Ethiopian beans last night. tonight i tried Counter Culture Hologram. same thing.

the burrs have only seen ~75lbs of coffee. they don't have any visible damage.

...but who cares about that anymore because i just nabbed an Orphan Espresso Pharos on Ebay! damn, that was lucky - it doesn't look like any have shown up on there for at least the last 6 months.

anyway, looks like my Preciso has just become a dedicated pourover grinder. but if you have any thoughts about my motor diagnosis, i'm all ears.

thanks.

samuellaw178
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#6: Post by samuellaw178 »

davestar wrote:so, would burrs rubbing be a particularly loud/painful sound? or barely discernible over the sound of the motor?
I would say it's a bit of both. Not very loud per se but should be noticable when the sound/pitch changes. In your case, it sounds like your zero point is about 2. Unfortunately, in that case, binding at step 8 is not expected on a normal Preciso. I would expect you to be able to grind from 3-4 onwards. At 3-4(probably grinding turkish powder), straining is expected, but not complete binding at 5. Sounds like a weak motor. Your best bet is to contact Baratza and I'd be interested to hear what they say as well.

Congrats on the Pharos! If you can get Preciso to work, it'd be interesting to know how those two compare from your experience. :mrgreen:

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nickw
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#7: Post by nickw »

The pharos should do a great job.

And it sounds like your burrs are out of alignment.

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Nate42
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#8: Post by Nate42 »

Congrats on your pharos. they are not without their quirks but I love mine. Since you're buying from ebay, if you are getting one of the older models before Doug started aligning with the outer burr locked down, you may want to re-align it with it locked so you can avoid the problem of hard beans knocking it out of alignment. PM me or start a new topic if you want to discuss that further, so we don't pollute this topic.

Back to your preciso, I suggest you still try to get to the bottom of your problem. If you truly can't grind well enough for espresso, something is wrong with it, and whatever the problem is it probably isn't doing your brewed coffee any favors either. Also, if you're like me, you may have a spouse who isn't interested in hand grinding, so a functional electric is a good thing to have as a backup.

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Tinkershot
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#9: Post by Tinkershot »

I bought this grinder several years ago. I adjusted my grinder for a finer grind to make espresso in my La Pavoni. About a month or two later, using the micro adjustments, all coffee grounds came out looking like Foldgers. I did a little research and it turns out that this particular model of Baratza grinder had the issue of not gluing the adjustment wheel to the gear box (They do now). I had to remove the housing on the grinder, remove the adjustment screw, and the adjustment wheel. There is a white peg that holds it in place, but the vibrations from grinding coffee and from the gear box causes it to rattle and come off of the peg which causes the adjustment ring to slip just enough to make all ground coffee come out like pour over grinds at any setting. If this is the case, you will have to put a little super glue on the bottom of the adjustment ring and seal it to the gear box. This stops the adjustment ring from sliding and gives it the purchase it needs to allow the adjustment ring to "slip" and adjust the grind accordingly. This fixed my problem and I've had no issue since. :D
Wine is fine but coffee is divine!

davestar (original poster)
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#10: Post by davestar (original poster) »

@Nate42 Thanks for the heads up with alignment issues. The seller only had the grinder for a couple of months, so it's a fairly recent model (#1000+). I'm realizing that there's a ton of alignment/mod options options with this thing. Lots of video tech bulletins to watch and HB threads to read.

@Tinkershot I'm (unfortunately) well aware of the adjustment ring issues with the Preciso. Mine didn't slip though, it just snapped. Baratza sent me a replacement and it seemed to be working flawlessly until I tried to grind for espresso.

Until I get my Pharos I've been running the Preciso with an empty hopper and then adding 3-5 beans at a time which isn't quite enough to stall the motor. I've gotten pretty decent shots, surprisingly. All evidence continues to point at a motor issue, but i'm waiting to hear back from Baratza to find out for sure.

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