New La Spaziale Dream T and... Breville grinder! Help!

#1: Post by **haroldo_psf** » February 25th, 2015, 5:50 pm

Hi all
This is my first post on here. I've been drinking coffee (milk based espresso drinks) and making my own at home for years. I have a Breville Barista Express (not the dual boiler, but the crappy one), and last month the grinder on it went out, so I bought the Breville grinder.
Long story short, after accidentally running into a video of somebody doing latte art with my machine, I obsessed over it, and fast forward one month, after reading all about coffee, perfecting extraction and frothing on my crappy machine (as "perfect" as it can be), I can pour nice Rosettas that taste decent (see my best work attached

.
Fast forward another week, and I just ordered a La Spaziale Dream T! I'm so excited I can't sleep right.
The problem is, I just recently spent $200 on a Breville smart grinder.

My question is, how much of a sin, an atrocity, is it to run the La Spaziale with the Breville grinder? Is there even the slightest hope for a cup up to the potential of the machine, or am I really committing an unforgivable crime ?
I'm about to buy a scale and a 2oz measurement cup to try to dial in that grinder...

If my situation is hopeless, can someone narrow down to a "can't go wrong with" below $600 grinder suggestion? I have read a lot here, people like the Vario, Mazzer, Macap, but there are a gazzilion trims and models, it's like drinking from a fire hose.

I learned what it is about the espresso machine that makes it a quality appliance. What is it I should look for when specifying a grinder?

Thanks in advance for any help. Whohooo! It gets here on Monday!

#2: Post by **JohnB.** » February 25th, 2015, 5:57 pm

The Smart grinder is fine for brew grinding but pretty much hopeless for good espresso. With a $600 budget I'd look for a nice used Mazzer Major. If that's too big or you want something new with a warranty the Vario would be a good choice.

#3: Post by **cmin** » February 25th, 2015, 6:09 pm

Smart Grinder is pretty useless for espresso, had one, great brew grinder however. Yeah I could pull a shot that looked like a normal nice flowing shot, but just didn't taste good vs Preciso in comparison let alone a Vario and others. Barista comes with basically a built in Smart Grinder, you may have liked it but using a better espresso grinder would really make a difference. Pairing it with a Spaz would be like putting A/T truck tires on a sports car.... yeah you can get along... but

Below $600, really no comparison, Vario, won't have heavy metal build but it outperforms anything in its class. Or can try to find a used commercial grinder just be aware you'll more than likely have to replace the burrs and put up with commercial quirks in a home setting and their massive size so keep that in mind. Check the for sale forum even on here or coffeegeek

February 25th, 2015, 6:14 pm

Thanks. I read that quite a lot. I'm just trying to understand, from a practical standpoint in the construction and manufacturing of these grinders, what is it that makes a grinder good or bad? What makes them expensive? Is it the size of the burrs? The spec in their machining? The type of steel? Or just the adjustability?

February 25th, 2015, 6:26 pm

Burrs, motor, step-less adjustment, accurate timers, dosers, heavy ass metal builds etc. But to keep it simple with the Smart Grinder the burr set isn't as good as the Preciso or other entry espresso grinders let alone others that are more expensive with much better and large burrs. Its motor is on the weak side and can get bogged down quite easily, not much adjustment for dialing as you want step-less or with the Baratzas they have so many steps they act step-less. Commercial grinders are basically over engineered to put up with that heavy duty cycle in a shop, a Smart Grinder would pry self destruct in 15 min in that setting lol.

Baratzas aren't commercial grade, save for the Forte which is built stout. But they just perform great. Vario has basically made that class of grinders around that price range obsolete, their all more quirky to use, large retention, clumpy, aren't as good in the cup etc, people will still buy them though as they want that nice shiny heavy metal build.

February 25th, 2015, 7:34 pm

FYI, at the moment, baratza.com has refurbished Vario's with the metal portafilter for $390US.

The Vario isn't perfect, but I don't think that you can do better for a (new) home grinder at that price. (Used is another story, e.g., a Super Jolly just sold here for a bit less.)

Good luck, and nice latté art!

#7: Post by **solo** » February 25th, 2015, 9:55 pm

haroldo_psf wrote:Thanks. I read that quite a lot. I'm just trying to understand, from a practical standpoint in the construction and manufacturing of these grinders, what is it that makes a grinder good or bad? What makes them expensive? Is it the size of the burrs? The spec in their machining? The type of steel? Or just the adjustability?

In many cases, what makes a grinder expensive is the build quality. What I'm talking about here is not the grind quality. Rather, the general construction-heavy duty/industrial/professional vs. a light duty consumer appliance. Some more expensive grinders are built to last with heavy daily use and, as such can be overkill in a home environment. I personally don't subscribe the anything-below-$600-sucks-for-espresso theory. A number of grinders that get pooh-poohed routinely aren't actually that bad, including the one you're currently using. Is it gonna last for ten years pulling 100 shots a day? Nope. Can you make good espresso with it right now? Hell yes. Case in point: I had an Isomac Tea Hx machine for eleven years, paired with a Mazzer Mini. Loved the results I got with it. When the Tea died, I ordered, then returned, a Profitec 700 d/t workmanship issues, then became a little enamored of the Breville Oracle. Ended up getting the Oracle, which has an integrated grinder, probably not much different from the Breville grinder you have. In fact, it may, for all intents and purposes, be the same grinder, I dunno. Point is, it dials in quite nicely, demonstrates great shot-to-shot consistency, and I've been quite happy with it. I still have the Mazzer, and could easily grind and dose with it if I wasn't getting satisfactory results with the Breville. The Breville seems to be doing just fine though, so the Mazzer sits idly by.

Now, to be fair, the Breville may end up being my workplace solution, and I'm considering a Londinium lever for the kitchen counter. Would I buy a Breville grinder to go with that? Absolutely not! So, yeah, I get it. I'd rather be the guy who can coax a great shot out of a Breville dose than the guy with a $2600.00 grinder pulling 2 lousy shots a day. You can use that grinder, and I'll bet you can coax good shots out of your Dream T with it.

Congrats on the Dream T, BTW! I took a long hard look at it too.

#8: Post by **cmin** » February 25th, 2015, 10:20 pm

Not to disagree there, but I had a Smart Grinder and found it fairly useless, I could pull a shot that would look and flow ok but it just didn't taste as good as a Preciso or especially Vario and was always missing that thick syrupy flow. And it was finicky b/c of grind quality, way more spritz and occurrences of channeling with my bottomless, which is only like a once in a blue moon thing now and more to do when dialing in new beans. Friend had Smart Grinder with his Breville dual Boiler and had similar problems dialing shots and his was updated shim/moved burr model whatever it was they did (I shimmed mine). He got a Vario, pulling way better flavor punching shots after that. Plenty of DB owners ended up getting something else once they realized how lacking and finicky the SG was for espresso. It does make a great brew grinder though.

But it's all relative, he may like the Smart and Spaz. I used an Oracle a few times, I believe it's basically Smart Grinder scaled down to package. Shots weren't as good as a semi and separate grinder even vs my non-fancy setup, but definitely above your run of the mill Superautos which it competes against, I thought it was better then a Monza a friend owned.

February 25th, 2015, 10:39 pm

After spending the rest of the day reading about burrs shapes (conical vs flat), size, build, doser vs doserless, etc, and you guys, I just placed an order for a Super Jolly Electronic Doserless. I'm so dead. My wife will kill me.

February 25th, 2015, 10:48 pm

You know what they say, better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. Congratulations!