Intrepid510 wrote:Looks pretty slick, I imagine it would make even less of a mess for people using a 58 mm basket.. Enjoy!

Yes, I was really surprised it worked at all with a 49mm basket let alone as fantastic as it does. The coffee dome does pile up a bit high due to the narrowness of the portafilter. So, the sides of the grinder's distribution cone does make a couple of slight grooves in the domed coffee when you pull it out. This does not really seem have any affect though. I just tap the portafilter on my plastic cutting board a couple of times to settle the grounds and tamp. I imagine that it would work even more impressively with a 58mm.

ladalet wrote:In fact, I think the faceplate may fit the Vario as well. I wonder if the circuit board will also fit gaining Forte features on the Vario-W? We may not get an answer to this question:)

Well, we did get an answer to this question right from the top. Thank you Kyra. The Face plate is not interchangeable with the Vario. Oh well, that would have been just too cool. At least I can get that real cool hopper for my Vario-W when they are available:D

I think Baratza could make a lot of money offering some of the Forte features as upgrades to the Varios. Offer a Forte like metal face plate with the nicer adjuster levers with the current features or with both time and weight based grinding (Forte interface) for the Vario-W. In fact, this might drive some more Vario-W sales with the possibility of upgrade. Offer the portafilter holder, and perhaps offer a metal housing to replace the plastic one, or even different color housings for all the grinders. Scion has been pretty successful offering all sorts of body panels and other upgrades for their cars. Not everyone can afford the Forte and even the Vario can be a stretch. So being able to upgrade the Vario to something close to a Forte over time could make it affordable and add some cash flow to Baratza. Even though I already have a Forte I would still upgrade my Vario if I could.

By the way, I don't think that I have mentioned how much I love the portafilter holder in the Forte yet today. My morning espresso routine is so much more simplified and my espresso so much more consistent. I no longer get any of that occasional channeling, gushing, or squirters. It holds my tiny 49mm portafilter like it was made for it. The grounds are deposited right in the center in a perfect fluffy mound. I am absolutely and completely blown away by it. I would purchase the forte just for the portafilter holder.

I just still cannot wrap my brain around being able to just poke a button and get the right dose piled up perfectly in the center of my 49mm portafilter. Well, I had better just stop here because I think this may turn into a bit of a gushing rant

Ah, kids and their new toys!
Seriously, I can understand your joy at seeing the coffee descend into the basket so uniformly. To me, another bonus is the fact (you'd have to verify this) that like the Vario, there is very little coffee (maybe a 1/2 gram, if that), remaining in the chute.
With my weight set to 17 grams, My W gives me 16.85 on average with non oily coffee. (as weighed on my digital scale)
I'd have to think the Forte does as well?

Funny I'm talking about retained grind in "tenths" of grams. Who knew?
My Preciso does retain a bit more, but still less than .3 grams on average. A tap on the sides, and all is good.

I'm going to get the Forte hopper for my W, for sure. Have you checked to see how many beans remain in the throat when the hopper is removed to change beans?



Edit for typos, the dreaded "teh", for one.

IMAWriter wrote:Have you checked to see how many beans remain in the throat when the hopper is removed to change beans?

I emailed Baratza and they said about 10g. Since I use my Vario for espresso and pour over, I'm excited about being able to shut-off the hopper when readjusting between brew methods since I would normally waste over 10g going from mid-coarse to espresso fine.

IMAWriter wrote:To me, another bonus is the fact (you'd have to verify this) that like the Vario, there is very little coffee (maybe a 1/2 gram, if that), remaining in the chute. With my weight set to 17 grams, My W gives me 16.85 on average with non oily coffee. (as weighed on my digital scale)
I'd have to think the Forte does as well?

Well, I have been grinding a City roast Costa Rica, so not oily. I shook, tapped, rocked, and swept the chute with my group brush to get as many grounds out as I could. There were not enough to register on my Escali PR500S at the 1/10g level.

So, I then set the grinder to grind 17g of a non oily City roasted Colombian. That dose weighed in on my Escali at 16.8g--within the + or - .2g claimed. I have not established an average yet. I could not get any grinds out of the chute at all. Also, I checked the factory calibration with a 200g weight and it came in at 200.4g. Also, my scale does not register to 1/100g as apparently yours does, so I cannot verify grind setting accuracy to that level. What scale do you have?

IMAWriter wrote:I'm going to get the Forte hopper for my W, for sure. Have you checked to see how many beans remain in the throat when the hopper is removed to change beans?

I just pulled off the hopper and checked to see how many beans are remaining. The upper burr holder is about 2/3 full of beans. That is not bad. It looks like the door in the hopper acts like a scoop and scooped out the top third. Although it would be nice to have little or no beans remaining, I am not sure how you would do it.

Edit:I guess I could have weighed the remaining beans.

ladalet wrote:I think Baratza could make a lot of money offering some of the Forte features as upgrades to the Varios. Offer a Forte like metal face plate with the nicer adjuster levers with the current features or with both time and weight based grinding (Forte interface) for the Vario-W. In fact, this might drive some more Vario-W sales with the possibility of upgrade. Offer the portafilter holder, and perhaps offer a metal housing to replace the plastic one, or even different color housings for all the grinders. Scion has been pretty successful offering all sorts of body panels and other upgrades for their cars. Not everyone can afford the Forte and even the Vario can be a stretch. So being able to upgrade the Vario to something close to a Forte over time could make it affordable and add some cash flow to Baratza. Even though I already have a Forte I would still upgrade my Vario if I could.

Then it would be a Forte! Other than the motor that is.

Good to hear someone ethusiastic about the grinder. Not a lot of mention of it on here, which for good measure. Most people are just going after grind quality not ease of use.

It would actually not quite be a Forte as the Forte has a better motor as well a few other features, and a much higher price. It would just be nice to have the option to upgrade to some of the nicer Forte features and still be well under the cost of a Forte.

Also, the grind quality is amazing which I took as a given, as already validate in the Vario as it is the same burr setup, in my description:D

In addition to available upgrades, this is the ideal Vario lineup I would like to see:

Vario-T: Basically the current Vario with time based grinding, ceramic burrs, standard hopper, bin and portafilter holder--$469 SRP.

Vario-W: Basically the current Vario-W with weight based grinding, changed to stainless burrs, standard hopper, and standard bin--$625 SRP (the added $50 is the price premium for the stainless burrs).

Vario-WT: Basically the current Vario-W upgraded to a new interface with both time and weight based grinding, ceramic burrs, standard bin, and upgraded to Forte hopper and portafilter holder--$725 SRP.*

* It would be nice if the new interface had the same metal grind adjustment arms as the Forte for a bit more. Perhaps it could go for $775 SRP.

I think that this arrangement would better suite specific consumer needs at various price points with amazing value. It would also offer a nice progression of price leading smoothly up to the Forte making its price seem an organic part of a natural progression of features and price (making it easier to sell in the home consumer market) as well as making the Forte a nice price anchor point relativising the perceived prices of the less expensive Vario line more appealing as they are no longer the most expensive top of the line models.**

** For example: the first bread machine was introduced selling for around $200. It totally failed to sell as it was perceived as too expensive. So, they introduced a $400 model to act as a price anchor point relativising the price of the $200 model and sales took off.

Edit: this is a pie in the sky optimistic if I could have it my way pipe dream not to be take too seriously

I agree with you, it would be nice if there was a middle option that included a more robust adjustment mechanism but not the same motor. Or some combination to address many of the home users complaints without fully going to the Forte.

Or perhaps another grinder that could fit in between the Forte and Vario-W in terms of price point. Because even though you are very happy with the Forte and I am sure it's work every penny, it's a bitter pill to swallow when you have the option of picking up a Vario or Vario W hundreds and hundreds of dollars less.

Something in the middle of that, which could make the price point not seem so high would be a step into the right direction.

The point you make about the prices of the higher end models making lower end models seem 'cheap' I saw evident over the weekend at a coffee shop where a person was asking about grinders. When the barista first told him the price of the Encore he seemed a little shocked, but once he was told the Preciso was $300 he seemed to think the Encore was cheap and bought it.

I have a nice new Forte now sitting on my counter! It is even more attractive in person.

I'd like a couple more days to play with it, get used to the increased speed (!), features, the aforementioned PF fork, etc.
Right now, all I have to share with the Forte is a older Gaggia "Espresso" machine that I repaired for a friend.
The group gasket leaks when the steam button is pushed, but no so when just pulling a shot. It's real primitive, compared to my former machines, an Anita and Cremina.

I'll report back in a few more days. Normally, I'd wait a month, as I often recommended when I was moderating at CG. I can certainly see why folks get excited over new gear, though. The fit and finish of this grinder partially explains its significant price bump from my former, and well loved Vario-W.

Congratulations I am sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for your impressions. I want to see if they jive with mine and if there are any I had not considered. So far, with a little more time under my belt, my initial impressions have only been strengthened. I really cannot think of anything more I would want in grinder features and ease of use. There is not a grinder among home models that I have tried nor among the higher end commercial grinders (Mazzer Luigi, Major, Anfim Camino, Super Camino) that I have tried that I would trade features with. With my limited experience with grinders over $1000 and no side by sides with those I have used I cannot comment on the relative grind quality difference with those more expensive units. I am limited to my experience with Mazzer Mini, Anfim Best, Baratza Maestro Plus, Baratza Encore, Baratza Virtuoso/Preciso, Baratza Vario-W, Capresso Infinity, Kitchen Aid A-9, Bodum Bistro, and Cuisinart Supreme DBM-8. In my opinion the Vario and Forte win here hands down.

So far I am completely and utterly satisfied with my little coffee dream team: