Hi everyone,

a few days ago I've finally modified my Major to a doserless grinder using a funnel chute design (something that Brad and I were working on before he passed away). The chute is similar to the original Mazzer E-series design, the only difference being that it has a straight section at the end (the cross section looks like a Y, instead of a V). The funnel was manufactured in the US and came with the straight end 'tail-piece' which measures around 3.5cm. The problem with that straight section is that it's a tad too long, leaving only around 2cm of space between it and a PF sitting on the fork. This meant that I was getting a pretty heavy overspray of grounds while grinding, expecially when the basket was quite full. I've decided to shorten the tail piece and cut off 2cm, leaving around 1.5cm on the funnel. Further testing however showed, that there's still quite a lot of grounds that fly in different directions, ending up outisde the basket. I've decided to have a look on the Internet and see if I can find any videos showing how the E-series Mazzers behave during grinding, especially the new Major-E model. I've managed to find this clip:



which shows a pretty neat distribution and almost no overspray, even though the funnel has no straight section at the end.

Now my question is, could this be because of the funnel on the new Major-E is grounded? Mine isn't at the moment and I'm curious whether adding a single grounding cable to the funnel will solve my problems.

Regards,
dsc.

Just curious... can you share the source of the funnel? The list price of the Mazzer OEM funnnel for the Mini-E is $177+ and when they finally make the Major funnel available I'm sure it will be higher still. I have a few Majors I wish to convert including the one I use at home on a daily basis.

Q: Did you add the wire grid that Mazzer includes in all the doserless models? In theory it is designed just to break up clumps but I've seen some anecdotal evidence implying that it also helps with static. Also - I would guess that grounding the funnel might help.

As for the short clearance between the PF and the bottom of the funnel.... how difficult would it be to just lower the portafilter forks?

Hi there Richard,

The funnels were ordered by Brad (around 20 I think) just as a test batch to see whether it's possible to produce a funnel-type chute for less than $170. Me and Brad were planning to actually start selling them, but unfortunatelly Brad passed away before we got a chance to agree on anything. Recently I got a package from Brad's niece which held aroun 90-95% of the funnels from the test batch. These are full working copies and only need a bit of drilling and customising to fit on the grinders. Currently almost of all them are here in Europe and only one of them was left in the US in the hands of a HB forum member.

I haven't added anything to the funnel, except for some holes and some sponge on the outside to seal the gap between the funnel and the grinder body. I wasn't planning on adding the wire grid as I always try to wipe out any coffee that's left in the grinder's 'neck' (bewteen the burr chamber and the doser/chute). I will however reconsider it, as static is quite bad and I'm ending with 10% of the coffee around the grinder, instead of in the basket.

I've decided to cut the funnel as it's easier and cleaner than moving the fork down. With the fork relocation one has to drill additonal holes in the grinder body and seal the existing ones which is harder to do in my opinion.

The biggest problem with the Major is how fast it grinds and how fast the coffee runs through the funnel. This is the mean reason why you need to have some space between the funnel and the PF, otherwise the coffee simply slams agains the heap in the basket and goes everywhere.

Regards,
dsc.

Phaelon56 wrote:Did you add the wire grid that Mazzer includes in all the doserless models? In theory it is designed just to break up clumps but I've seen some anecdotal evidence implying that it also helps with static. Also - I would guess that grounding the funnel might help.

I talked with Michael from EPNW about Mazzers and Modding last week, and I communicated my assumption that the Robur funnel would probably be around $200-250, and he said based on what he's heard, I'm probably right (and you too).

My own experience with the Mini-E funnel on a Super Jolly confirms the static problem. I am pretty sure that the funnel *is* grounded, considering that Mazzers (at least, mine) have a 3-pronged cord, the ground wire of which is screwed onto the body, which is cast aluminum. And then the funnel/doser is screwed onto the body directly. It's maybe a roundabout path, but I have never heard of any luck with grounding beyond that. If something that simple worked, I would expect Mazzer to do it. They don't make the tidiest grinders, but they're pretty sharp. The mesh grid certainly reduces static. No question. I found it extremely annoying (the neat freak in me likes to keep the chute brushed out), so I rigged up my own grid. It was ugly, thanks to my lack of a soldering gun and anything like food-grade solder, but it did what I wanted. Anyhow, running the grinder with the grid up vs. down is startling. No grid, and these little fines shoot out of the chute and, literally, around the portafilter, some of them sticking to the outside of the funnel, others flying out onto the countertop impressively far from the grinder. With the grid, things are dramatically tidier.

YMMV of course. I am sure that dry weather and the degree of roast of your beans will play a part in the degree to which static causes problems.

I asked about funnel fabrication when chatting with the guys at the local aquacutting shop where I have portafilters converted to bottomless. They looked at the Mini-E funnel and said they fully understood why it costs as much as it does. We discussed fab options and every conceivable scenario either yielded costs that were close to or above the cost of the Mazzer part (yet with diminished aesthetics) or had functional issues that were unacceptable.

Spun aluminum (e.g. the process used to make photoflood bulb aluminum reflectors) was considered but

a) the straight sides coupled with steep angle of the Mazzer funnel could be difficult to reproduce accurately
b) it's common for each spun aluminum piece to be fractionally different in size from others even if they have the same design specs

Did you fabricate the motor plate covers yourself? I assume the open space space is larger on a Major with doser removed in terms of vertical exposure than it is on a Super Jolly.

Side note: I worked with someone who tried to convert a standard Mini to doserless with the Mazzer funnel and wore grid but found that the grinder wouldn't push all of the grounds out through the grid and what did get through was sticking to the sides of the funnel. I'm guessing that the small burr size of the standard Mini (58mm vs the 64 m of the Mini-E) may be part of the issue but does hte Mini-E also run at higher RPMs than the standard model or have a beefier motor?

Phaelon56 wrote:Side note: I worked with someone who tried to convert a standard Mini to doserless with the Mazzer funnel and wore grid but found that the grinder wouldn't push all of the grounds out through the grid and what did get through was sticking to the sides of the funnel. I'm guessing that the small burr size of the standard Mini (58mm vs the 64 m of the Mini-E) may be part of the issue but does the Mini-E also run at higher RPMs than the standard model or have a beefier motor?

Having owned a Mini, I wouldn't have any trouble believing that it would struggle to push grinds through that grid. Still, I am confused about what you are saying. Did it noticeably slow the grinder down, or just make the chute stay fuller? Because I found that happened on the Super Jolly too... I think it's inevitable, although I am sure that bigger, more 'vigorous' grinders will reduce the problem by a bit. The Major is, I believe, the fastest Mazzer, so it's probably the best you can get in terms of a good throw out the chute.

I don't think that the Mini-E has a better motor... I think the Mini and Mini-E both have 250W motors. The Mini-E has larger, 64 mm burrs, but they are less "aggressive" than the Super Jolly's burrs, and as such the Mini-E is a slower grinder (although the motor spins at the same 1600 rpm).

Hi again,

sadly Brad didn't have enough time to produce motor covers... but I know he was working on some.

For now the motor on my Major is covered with a piece of cardboard. I know it's not great looking but it works:



I'm pretty sure it will be quite hard to produce a proper motor cover, at least without a good hydraulic press and a form to press it on.

As for the funnels it is quite easy to make them, you just need the right machine, a skilled metal worker and a pretty heavy, usually steel, form, a negative of the item you are going to make. In the right hands a properly made funnel is very smooth inside and outside and it needs no additional work in order to get the coffee run through it without sticking. Those funnels made by Mazzer are probably made by a computer controlled machine and it probably takes less time and effort. Considering the amounts of funnels produced by Mazzer, I'm pretty sure they could cut down the price by 100% and still make good profit. As a side note, the only expensive production part in this process is the form (I know that when I was looking for someone to make similar funnels in Poland they wanted around 20$ a piece - assuming that I had my own form).

Today I grounded the funnel and it's definitely better. Still not great as I get grounds sticking to the PF and the rim of the basket, but at least it doesn't cover half of the damn kitchen counter in coffee. I've also added this bit:



Not sure if it's going to work as the speed with which the grounds are being pushed from the burr chamber is quite huge and there's hardly any coffee cumulating in the 'throat' in the first few seconds (I mean there is coffee sitting there, but mostly on the right side, not were the coffee ejects). It simply 'blasts' through and into the funnel. I will try to ground the motor tomorrow and test to see whether that grid actually works. I'm not so happy with it in place as I can't brush out any leftovers and the 'throat' can hold around 1g of coffee after each motor run.

Oh and here's how the grounds look like straight from the funnel:



Regards,
dsc.

Still, I am confused about what you are saying. Did it noticeably slow the grinder down, or just make the chute stay fuller? Because I found that happened on the Super Jolly too... I think it's inevitable, although I am sure that bigger, more 'vigorous' grinders will reduce the problem by a bit.

The experience they had was not the grinder slowing down but instead the grounds exiting out the chute too slowly to hit the funnel in such a way that they would just slide straight down and out into the PF.

The guys I talked to here said having a form made is a huge expense and although they could think of ways to fabricate a funnel from two pieces it would end up being very expensive. A form would also be required for motor cover plates but they thought that for perhaps $20 - $25 each I could have them made form two pieces of aluminum that were bent, cut and then joined.

Is your Major powder coated? That sort of pebbled finish is one I love - used to have a little Bolex 8 mm camera and also a Keuffel & Esser tape measure that were both finished that way.

Everyone assumes that the purpose of the Mini-E screen is to break up clumps or reduce static. According to Mazzer's patent application, however, "the grid reduces the velocity of the ground coffee, or powder, so that the powder does not accumulate upon, or adhere to, the walls of the funnel."

I've tried the Mazzer funnel on both a Major and a Super Jolly, and I can see exactly the problem of the coffee sticking to the funnel walls. An amazing amount sticks, especially with a fine ristretto grind. The problem with the screen is that it keeps a lot of coffee in the grinder throat, and the screen makes it harder to brush out the throat. After going back and forth, I've settled on not using the screen. It's a lot easier to brush coffee off the inside funnel walls than it is to brush it out of the grinder throat.

As for coffee coming out of the funnel too fast and bouncing all over the place, I handle that by using a cut off yogurt cup (as in the WDT). I'm not actually doing any WDT stirring as the Major really doesn't produce any clumps. But the cup helps greatly with the mess. I made a metal version of the cup that looks a little nicer, although it's still not exactly an elegant solution.

IslandAddict wrote:Everyone assumes that the purpose of the Mini-E screen is to break up clumps or reduce static. According to Mazzer's patent application, however, "the grid reduces the velocity of the ground coffee, or powder, so that the powder does not accumulate upon, or adhere to, the walls of the funnel."

You don't think that the powder gets impacted do you? Into stainless steel? I'm pretty sure that's static that causes that powder (fines in particular) to adhere to the inner walls and, indeed, to wrap around to the outer walls. As I understand it, though the stainless is conductive, the particles are not. In any case, they don't appear to be discharged by the contact. I could be way off, but that's what I observed with doserless without a screen--the reason the stuff sticks to the insides is the same reason the coffee bounces all over the place when it comes out.

But it's a moot point what the cause is, really, as long as you have the solution that works for you, right?