Mazzer doser exit chute modification for cleaner countertop! - Page 2

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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Psyd
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#11: Post by Psyd »

TimEggers wrote:I don't claim to have the perfect set-up and I agree it's fundamentally flawed. Although I can restate that I don't notice any negligible difference in my shots.
To each their own.
Looking back, I see that there weren't as many smileys on that post as there should have been. ; > ; > ; > There ya go!
TimEggers wrote:To make matters worse I've been experimenting with a Ken Fox approach of a 14g dose, no leveling, no WDT no nothing followed with a tamp and the shots surprisingly flow evenly and taste great. The bead as evenly as my WDT shots and taste as good. Grind, dose then tamp. I often have tamped the mound and things turned out great. A slow pull of the doser handle has been key though and that negates the need for a chute as I use above.
So have I. It irks me in somewhat the same way when I finally tried my Dad's way, and learned that he was right, to discover that it works. I'm still not convinced that I like it better, but it is easier to be far more reliable at it.

<Mrs. Wickley's second grade 'everyone' voice> Thanks Ken...</Mrs. Wickley's second grade 'everyone' voice>

Thanks for the slow pull advice, too. OTOH, I am super glad to finally have a use for the doser-mounted tamper that I 'had' to have to make my Major stock!
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cannonfodder
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#12: Post by cannonfodder »

I hold the portafilter to the left of center (secret ninja barista trick).

:wink:
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TimEggers (original poster)
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#13: Post by TimEggers (original poster) replying to cannonfodder »

I'd been doing that too but I was still getting some grounds "spraying" beyond the basket rim. Maybe my thwack is off!
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Randy G.
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#14: Post by Randy G. »

first cannonfodder wrote:I hold the portafilter to the left of center (secret ninja barista trick).
:wink:
...and then TimEggers wrote:I'd been doing that too but I was still getting some grounds "spraying" beyond the basket rim. Maybe my thwack is off!
"When you can thwack off to the left, your training will be complete, Grasshopper, and you will be a barista."
:shock:
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Randy G.
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#15: Post by Randy G. »

Very early on I removed the PF fork from my Rocky. Using the Thwack-Thwack method of dosing I move the PF about and get a very even, and nearly clump-free dose. The cup-culvert would be effective, but if the problem is that the grounds get thrown with too much force to the side, why not try this:




Having the half-cup would give a better view to distribution.
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TimEggers (original poster)
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#16: Post by TimEggers (original poster) »

Randy that is a very good idea indeed.

Alternatively I began to experiment with straight thwack distribution. I experimented with a super slow thwack fast thwacks and all points in-between. It was an epiphany moment when I found just the right speed that allowed the coffee to fall then spread itself throughout the basket! Think water balloon on kitchen floor (the affect of the coffee landing caused the grounds to radiate outwards and fill the basket almost level. Before I believe I was thwacking too fast making for a mound in the middle of the basket before it could spread out. I used to get a heaping mound over the basket by the time the coffee at the edges hit the top of the basket. With a slower more fluid thwack I am able to fill the basket level with just a slight mound in the middle. I do a level with my straight edge (N,S,E,W more or less) tamp lock and pull. The shots bead as evenly as my best WDT and flow evenly. I have a ways to go and I need more practice but I think I've finally spotted what works for me. In the past I've experimented with not using WDT and some shots were great and some were terrible. I think I have spotted (or realized) what I need to do on my set-up to get great grind, dose, level pull shots.

In the coarse of the experiment I realized too that I needed a slightly finer grind when not doing WDT. Its odd but the shots seem to hold together better and flow like my WDT shots at a finer setting when not using WDT. Has anyone else seen this?

The shots without using the WDT where a snappy chocolate/caramel with a hint of monsooned funk. A great shot indeed. With the WDT I was getting mostly caramel. Both nice shots but I'm surprised at the difference. I can't say that I'm going to abandon the WDT anytime soon but I do know that I will practice my slower thwacks and really pay attention to how the coffee is landing in the basket. It seems that as long as I do that the shots turn out excellent. (Now how many of you pros are saying to yourselves "Duh, Tim!")??? :roll: :oops:
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jesawdy
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#17: Post by jesawdy »

TimEggers wrote:(Now how many of you pros are saying to yourselves "Duh, Tim!")??? :roll: :oops:
Only a few "pros" here, Tim. The rest of us are just sharing amateur ramblings.

I've been playing with a Super Jolly and close to 14 g doses. Here's what I've been doing of late:
  1. I clean and empty doser if needed,
    I've been keeping a few shots worth of beans in a "mini" hopper and I have a heavy tamper on top of the beans as well,
    I start the grinder and run for 8 seconds (at least by counting in my head), no thwacking,
    I sweep the grinder chute clean, there's at least a gram or more there,
    I then fairly slowly operate the doser, coffee drops straight or slightly left, so I either twist the PF or move it to the left,
    The 8 seconds grind time is very close to 14g, I weigh the basket and adjust accordingly,
    I quickly NSEW and/or jostle level (played with Stockfleth's as well),
    I tamp lighter than "normal" for me these days, but I'd guess 15-20 pounds, sometimes more.
What I've found is that 14g doesn't quite fill the basket. Extractions bead evenly and usually hold up but not quite as well or as long as a WDT shot would. Grind setting is a good clip finer than the Mazzer suggested espresso setting. The espressos are good and have a pretty low "fuss factor" (other then my self imposed use of the scale).
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cannonfodder
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#18: Post by cannonfodder »

TimEggers wrote: I experimented with a super slow thwack fast thwacks and all points in-between. It was an epiphany moment when I found just the right speed...
Should you really be disclosing that on a public forum? :lol:

I do have to point out that the grinder makes a difference. My Mini grinds slower and requires less vigorous thwacking, but will throw the grounds more to the left than my LaCimbali Jr which has larger burrs, grinds faster and requires more vigorous doser work. It must be a design difference in the doser's. The Super Jolly I had for the Titan Grinder project tossed the grinds to the left just like the Mini so it must be a trait of the Mazzer design.
Dave Stephens

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TimEggers (original poster)
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#19: Post by TimEggers (original poster) replying to cannonfodder »

Hello Mr. Stephens,

You raise a very good point about different grinders. My question to you (or anyone else reading) have you found a pull speed (thwack) of the doser handle :roll: :wink: that makes the coffee "shower" out of the doser and evenly fill the basket?

That's in essence what I've been getting but I have to watch my thwack. As long as it's just the right speed the coffee nearly level fills the basket (I wonder what relation this works with regard to grinding i.e. could one grind the full shot amount then thwack to achieve the same thing)? Followed with a leveling via straightedge and tamp the shots bead and flow so evenly. I'm going to stick to this method as it works beautifully and is so simple (per amount of steps) to get great espresso. It's been an eye opener for me. One step closer to becoming a Barista (someday)!

To clarify I've been thwacking slowly without the chute in place.
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cannonfodder
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#20: Post by cannonfodder »

Mr Stephens? You make feel old. We are all friends here so Dave will do if you so desire.

I have not seen a doser that will drop the grounds evenly in the basket, and the doserless grinders toss to many boulders for my preference. There is nothing really wrong with that, you just have to break up the clumps before you distribute and tamp.

The only grinder that I have seen that comes close to what I would term nearly perfect distribution is the Versalab. But having seen one in person, I do not care for the build.
Image
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Versalab M3 Grinder bench test

My Cimbali tends to drop the grounds more vertically. While working the doser handle I will move the portafilter in a circular motion. The grinds will drop around the perimeter of the basket with the last couple of thwacks finishing out the center. That gives me a relatively even distribution that works well for down dosed (below the rim) baskets. Then I settle the grounds with a single thump down on the tamping stand and tamp.

In the winter, when the humidity is low, I occasionally get an exploding basket. It is almost like the grounds are tiny super bounce balls. They fall into the basket and then jump back out all over my table. That is real annoying.
Dave Stephens