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Mahlkönig K30 ES/Vario v. ProM v. (Baratza) VARIO Home - Page 3

Postby Nik on Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:47 am

I am also very curious about the grinder but it would seem foolish for Mahlkonig to produce a grinder that is as good as or better than the premium ones that they are selling at close to the same price. If my information is correct they are marketing this grinder for restaurants or cafe's that don't create the grinder wear of higher volume coffee shops.

Of course we are speculating the unknown but if the price is too close to the K30 I will buy another one of those or look at other alternatives. A $1000 street price puts it close to the center between the Vario and the K30 which makes sense to me.
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Postby Whale on Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:13 am

I agree that Mahlkonig seems to be marketing the ProM for the Horeca (hotel,restaurant, cafe) market but there might be a bit of "marketing" here.

This is only a theory and speculation on my part, but I think that this grinder was designed for high performance home usage and is being marketed in the Horeca group to spruce up its image. Which is fair game really.

The reasons I think it is designed (at least partly) for the home usage is the grind bin that stores in the back of the hopper, the time and size adlustment that are easily changed and the short, narrow volume design. (added at a later time: Also the aesthetic design which is more akin to the german kitchen ware than most grinders out there). But I could be completly missing the point on it.

My informal preliminary information seems to put this grinder price lower than $1000.00, but there is almost no credibility to this forcast.
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Postby Nik on Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:24 am

I think you have made some valid points. I would think that they have looked at the success of the Baratza Vario and have targeted the demand for a higher performance model at a higher price point. Very wise in my opinion if it pans out to be this way. They are squarely shooting at the Mazzer and Macaps that fall in this price category.

This link will take you to some informative pdf files including the operation manual.
http://www.mahlkoenig.de/en_products/Pr...inder.html

There does appear to be a split hopper which would permit using two types of beans but I can't find how you would select the different bins. I could be off on this one.

Fingers crossed that your projection of less than a grand is accurate.
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Postby A2chromepeacock on Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:41 am

Nik wrote:There does appear to be a split hopper which would permit using two types of beans but I can't find how you would select the different bins. I could be off on this one.


The chamber in the front is the only bean hopper. What appears to be a second hopper behind it is actually just the storage location for the bin if you want to grind into a bin rather than into a portafilter (page 6 on the operating instructions manual, via the link you provided).
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Postby zin1953 on Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:42 am

Forgive my ignorant cynicism, but . . . (or perhaps I should start off by saying "Random thoughts") . . . .

Clearly no home user really needs the Pro M or the K30 ES/Vario -- after all, who among us needs to grind two double shots per minute (the capacity of a 110v K30) or 150 doubles a day (the recommended maximum for a Pro M). Doesn't stop some of us from wanting/owning them, mind you, but --

I've not seen the "Street Prices" for the K30 Vario that Robert has seen
nik wrote:One of the areas that I would like to point out is the price of $1900 that you have listed for the K30. I have seen "street" prices as low as $1475 and generally in the mid $1500's as fairly common.

But this is one reason why I always quote MSRP or the "list" price . . . I mean most of us know that the Baratza Vario (aka the Mahlkönig VARIO Home) is $429, but we also know that Chris' Coffee Service is offering a discount. We also know that the price will go up by $20 with the new motherboards. The list price avoids any temporary discounts or sale prices and compares the items in question (in this case, grinders) "head-to-head." If there are discounts, so much the better . . .

FWIW, I have seen a $1475 price, or thereabouts, for the Mahlkönig K30, but only from the Mahlkönig USA website, and only for demo units used at trade fairs, shows, etc. The Mahlkönig USA website shows the list price for a K30 ES as $2,250 and for the K30 Vario as $2,450. However, under the "Specials" section of their website, they are offering a K30 ES for $1,450 (FOB Belmont, CA), and a K30 Vario for $1,590 (FOB Belmont, CA) -- sales tax and shipping is extra.

But I cannot conceive of the Pro M being for commercial use for ONE reason: the bean hopper only holds 260 grams of beans . . . that's only 18 doubles . . . better be a S-L-O-W establishment. It makes me wonder if the Mahlkönig VARIO Home -- being a Baratza design with Mahlkonig burrs -- made Mahlkönig want to design their OWN grinder for home use . . . but couldn't/didn't want to "step on their own toes," in a sense, and make a grinder that would compete head-to-head, so they "upped" it just enough . . . .

To Sylvain, re: the hopper for the Pro M . . .
Image
I am merely speculating, of course, but I think the space is useless -- one cannot access any beans there (i.e.: there is no chute into the grinder from the second compartment), and any pre-ground beans would stale quickly and be difficult to access anyway. I think it is just for design -- to match the shape of the hopper to the shape of the grinder itself.

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Postby Whale on Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:00 pm

zin1953 wrote:To Sylvain, re: the hopper for the Pro M . . .

zin1953 wrote:I am merely speculating, of course, but I think the space is useless -- one cannot access any beans there (i.e.: there is no chute into the grinder from the second compartment), and any pre-ground beans would stale quickly and be difficult to access anyway. I think it is just for design -- to match the shape of the hopper to the shape of the grinder itself.


What space are you thinking about?

As you have mentioned yourself the back of the hopper is to store the "bin". Mahlkonig is suggesting to store pre-ground coffee in there (inside the bin). I wouldn't do that other than just for a few minutes, but I can see an interest when grinding for a large group of guests that all want a cappa.

I am not sure to understand your statement?
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Postby Whale on Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:14 pm

zin1953 wrote:Forgive my ignorant cynicism, but . . . (or perhaps I should start off by saying "Random thoughts") . . . .

Clearly no home user really needs the Pro M or the K30 ES/Vario -- after all, who among us needs to grind two double shots per minute (the capacity of a 110v K30) or 150 doubles a day (the recommended maximum for a Pro M). Doesn't stop some of us from wanting/owning them, mind you, but --


Different subject but different incomprehension (I am somewhat thick around the edges and in the centre as well :lol: ), this one a lot off topic.

I clearly agree that no one needs such a grinder. FWIW, no one NEEDS an electric grinder but it is very convenient. Why are you bringing this up?

That being said, I do not think that a home user really cares about the 150 doubles per day capacity. It is (again pure speculation on my part) just that this is something that is part of the standard Commercial grinder specification sheet. Since (again pure speculation on my part) they are "marketing it as a commercial grinder...
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Postby HB on Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:23 pm

zin1953 wrote:I am merely speculating, of course, but I think the space is useless -- one cannot access any beans there (i.e.: there is no chute into the grinder from the second compartment), and any pre-ground beans would stale quickly and be difficult to access anyway. I think it is just for design -- to match the shape of the hopper to the shape of the grinder itself.

Speculation on my part, but looks like a second compartment for decaf coffee. Or, for those who like to switch coffees without emptying the hopper, it could be as easy as turning the hopper around.
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Postby Whale on Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:41 pm

HB wrote:Speculation on my part, but looks like a second compartment for decaf coffee. Or, for those who like to switch coffees without emptying the hopper, it could be as easy as turning the hopper around.


I though that a while but as Jason wrote there is no output for that part of the hopper. If they modified it to put the whole hopper on a slider or such, maybe that could work but it is not part of the current design (as far as I understand it).
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Postby A2chromepeacock on Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:54 pm

It's just an empty slot for storage of the included plastic bin, which would be removed and placed under the grind spout (after removing the portafilter rest) if you prefer to grind into a bin. You can see the nested bin in this "storage compartment" on Mahlkonig's flickr page here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mahlkoenig...otostream/

p.s. this statement based on speculative conclusion after highly caffeinated inspection of videos, photographs, and (gasp) the owner's manual. no first-hand experience.
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