Macap M4 stepless changing grind repeatability problem

by **akiley** on Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:31 pm

Hi all,

I've had a Macap M4 stepless grinder for about 3 years now. I can't find any mention of my particular problem. But here it is.

My Macap has no problem grinding to a perfect 20 second shot. But it's very hard to make it repeatable, or to make small changes. Small changes work in the direction of finer, but not for coarser grinds. It's like I have to back the Macap way course, then readjust it back to fine to get it to change the amount I want. This is hard to do.

I often roast three or more beans to slightly different levels to experiment with blends. The grind for espresso has to be changed slightly depending on what bean I use. This gets very difficult with this grinder.

Does anyone else have this problem with this grinder? Thanks ... akiley

by **decaf_Ed** on Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:38 pm

I have a stepless MC4 and have not noticed the problem that you described. I get good response (like 1/4 turn effects) in either direction.
Mine is a little less than 2 years old (S/N 080100961).
-Ed

by **geoffbeier** on Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:40 pm

I haven't noticed this on mine. If this is not a new problem for you, one point worth observing is that this grinder holds a fair bit of ground coffee in the chute between the burrs and the doser. I operate mine without the finger guard. To empty the chute, I use a small brush to remove all the grounds that are visible in the chute, then hit the power switch one more time to spin the burrs for a second. Then I brush again.

Here are the grounds in my chute:

And here's the amount I cleaned out as described above, sitting on my doser lid:

If there's that much too-fine coffee sitting in your attempt to coarsen the grind, I could see how that might make it seem like your adjustments aren't working well. But assuming consistent dose, distribution and tamp I'd also expect you to notice it equally both directions. (I can't concoct some reason you'd notice it more when coarsening the grind, anyway...)

by **howard seth** on Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:21 pm

To empty the chute, I use a small brush to remove all the grounds that are visible in the chute, then hit the power switch one more time to spin the burrs for a second. Then I brush again.

I do this too.

Howard

by **akiley** on Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:28 pm

Thanks for the help everyone. Nice to know it's just me. I'll take it apart, clean and see if I discover anything.

Can you make a mark for drip, grind that, then get back to your espresso grind pretty consistently? Or at least in the ball park? When I try this, I sometime get my espresso grind back, but no where near the mark I had previously placed. Somethings weird and always has been. We'll see if I can discover any problem inside.

I have a little paddle I empty the chute with, so that's not my issue. But thanks for the great photos.

... akiley

by **cafeIKE** on Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:21 pm

The M4 is an espresso grinder. A cheap drip grinder may solve your problem.

As far as using the M4 for espresso, IMO it takes at least double shot of coffee at a new setting to clear the remnants, whether dosing 1-shot or with a hopper. Using a 0.1g scale, fresh coffee, clearing the chute every shot allows detectable and repeatable ¼ turn adjustments in either direction, although rarely is less than ½ turn used.

Use fresh coffee, clear the chute, purge a gram or two if the grinder sits for a bit and the MC4 requires minimal adjustment over a coffee unless the weather makes a dramatic change.

3 year old burrs may be on the cusp of replacement, depending on coffee volume over that period.

by **geoffbeier** on Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:52 pm

cafeIKE wrote:The M4 is an espresso grinder. A cheap drip grinder may solve your problem.

+1 to this. The only time I adjust mine out of espresso range is to run Grindz through.

by **akiley** on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:22 pm

cafeIKE wrote:The M4 is an espresso grinder. A cheap drip grinder may solve your problem.

Well, I don't do drip that often. For a party with a lot of drip, I drag Rocky up from the cellar. But I do have problems making the espresso grind slightly coarser.

cafeIKE wrote:As far as using the M4 for espresso, IMO it takes at least double shot of coffee at a new setting to clear the remnants, whether dosing 1-shot or with a hopper. Using a 0.1g scale, fresh coffee, clearing the chute every shot allows detectable and repeatable ¼ turn adjustments in either direction, although rarely is less than ½ turn used.

That's nice to know. I back off several turns and nothing seems to change. Once I have it dialed in it is repeatable, but moving toward coarser seems to make problems.

cafeIKE wrote:Use fresh coffee, clear the chute, purge a gram or two if the grinder sits for a bit and the MC4 requires minimal adjustment over a coffee unless the weather makes a dramatic change.

I roast my own, so it's 2 to 7 days old. I usually roast one blend then dial the grind in, and it only changes a bit over the 5 or 6 days. But last week I roasted several blends and SOs. Some of these beans can make for quite different pull times. For instance, I had a Brazil that I dialed in for a perfect 20 second pull. I tried a different bean I had roasted the same day to almost exactly the same level and it flushed through in 5 seconds for a double shot. I use a click tamper so that's consistent. akiley

by **cafeIKE** on Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:02 am

SO -> Blend | Another SO == BIG Change

Any time a change is made from blend to SO or SO to another SO, a 2 to 3 turn change is not unexpected. Roast level is irrelevant.

by **howard seth** on Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:05 am

With my Macap stepless/Elektra Semiatumatica setup, I find the first espresso of the morning needs to be a turn or more coarser on the grinder than the second cup. In other words: I know I will need to be a turn finer for that second cup, the third cup may or may not be pushed a smidge finer. This is fairly consistent practice - on any given day. (This is with single dosing.)

Howard

by **akiley** on Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:28 am

Thanks everyone for the help. I think I solved the problem by being a little more astute. I put a piece of white tape just below the gears to help adjust. On one tooth of the gears I put some whiteout. The tape is numbered in half turn increments. This tape covers my espresso grind from the most course to the finest grinds I'm likely to use. This is only about an inch long piece of tape.

So now I can write on each jar of coffee, the number that produces the 20 second shot.

Bottom line, I was probably confused and needed a more accurate way of looking at my grind level. Seems like grinders should have a pointer for more accurate adjustments and repeatability.

... Akiley

by **chris** on Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:48 am

It is always best when making changes to your grind with any grinder to run more than one shot before making a determination to adjust even more. The first shot you pull will usually not be the same as the second after you make an adjustment.

by **JmanEspresso** on Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:30 pm

To add to what Chris said... If you keep a load of beans in the grinder(not adding per shot), then when you make a grind change, before you pull the shot, it would be good practice to purge/grind some coffee through, because there will coffee at your previous grind setting not only in the chute, but in the burrs and burr chamber, and possibly in the doser. The suggestion often seen on retailers websites to only make grind changes when the grinder is grinding,(to avoid mashing the burrs into the bean between them when going finer), effectively purges the grinder as well.

Some grinders do have a notch, or marking of some sort, on the grinders body, that you can use as a reference point for your grind. Owners of grinders with no such marking usually make their own, in some way or another.


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