A lunar lander has just landed in my house - Helor 102 - Page 3

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
bakafish
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#21: Post by bakafish »

I don't care the analysis of grind rpm and taste on other grinders because the grinders, coffee machines, coffee beans, volumes, and tasters are all different. Even the same model grinders, I believe they are slightly different because of the parts tolerance.

As Sam said, too high RPM will cause popcorning in single dosing. My huie-71 takes about 30 turns to grind 14g at 120 rpm, and takes only 20 turns at 60 rpm with almost no popcorning.

bas
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#22: Post by bas »

samuellaw178 wrote:I agree with Ken..being the inter'nerd' I was :lol: , tracing back on the internet history, Kinu M68 appeared around mid August in Romanian forum. Public discussion about improvement (addition of gear reduction) for Helor happened around mid/late July. Very close, but yeah, convergent evolution is definitely in play here.
To be precise: The Kinu M68 prototype (Apollo 1) showed up on the internet on October 15e last year :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO8Sa1GL2lc

By the way I counted this morning: About 30 turns of the cranking arm for 18 gram. The gear reduction on the M68 is 1:2.5. Do you now what the gear reduction on the Helor 102 is? I read you needed about 70 turns for a 18 gram dose. Of course the bean type and how fine your are grinding has influence as well as the fact that my burrs are perhaps broken in better, but it seems a big difference especially considering the bigger burrs mounted on the Helor. Just wondering if it has a bigger gear reduction. Of course that could change as the Helor is nog in it's final shape and configuration yet.

samuellaw178 (original poster)
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#23: Post by samuellaw178 (original poster) »

bas wrote:To be precise: The Kinu M68 prototype (Apollo 1) showed up on the internet on October 15e last year :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO8Sa1GL2lc

By the way I counted this morning: About 30 turns of the cranking arm for 18 gram. The gear reduction on the M68 is 1:2.5. Do you now what the gear reduction on the Helor 102 is? I read you needed about 70 turns for a 18 gram dose. Of course the bean type and how fine your are grinding has influence as well as the fact that my burrs are perhaps broken in better, but it seems a big difference especially considering the bigger burrs mounted on the Helor. Just wondering if it has a bigger gear reduction. Of course that could change as the Helor is nog in it's final shape and configuration yet.
Ah, I didn't realize there was that video. So the Kinu is indeed the first then. :P

The gear ratio on Helor is 1:2. Pretty sure the unit I have now is not broken in at all. That plus the burrs design(non-Mazzer) and the burrs size (83mm). Based on HG-1 folks' experience, the 71mm actually grinds faster and easier to crank than the 83mm (but with more static - though I am seeing a lot static on the current configuration). The general consensus was also there was not a huge difference in flavor. I did actually wonder why Helor has not gone with 71mm instead.

Addition: Did another grind of 15g just now, it was about 50 turn. Does seem to come down a bit compared to when I first got it.

Naitch
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Joined: 12 years ago

#24: Post by Naitch »

Hi Samuel,

I know that the 102 is in a different class than the 101 but had a couple questions in relation to the two of them.

1) How do the grinds and taste compare to the Helor 101?

2) Does it disassemble and go back together as relatively easily as the 101?

Thanks,

Craig

samuellaw178 (original poster)
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#25: Post by samuellaw178 (original poster) replying to Naitch »

Hi Craig,

1) The burrs are in a rather new condition (not seasoned) so I really hesitate to draw any major conclusion. But the taste/flavor profile reminds me a lot of the 83mm HG-1 I had - brighter in general, but offers a hair more complexity/layers. The 101 is a pretty good espresso grinder in itself, but I thought the flavors are not as separated as the big conicals and maybe there's more of the chocolate bitterness hint.

2) The 102 is relatively easy to disassemble and assemble. But the bearings and outer burr are of a tighter fit (which takes a bit more attention to put them back). For a precision tool, I personally don't think it should be disassembled on a frequent basis. But it is easy enough shall you need to. To clean the burrs, the inner burr can be dropped just by unscrewing the allen key at the bottom.

Downunder55
Posts: 27
Joined: 7 years ago

#26: Post by Downunder55 »

Hi Samuel,

Any further update on the H 102 after you have been playing for a while ?

Does it require much effort turning the handle ?

Do you dump all the beans in at once or feed them progressively in ?

Regards

Barry

amagad
Posts: 111
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#27: Post by amagad »

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:RDT = Ross Droplet Technique
Adding small droplets of water to beans before grinding to eliminate static. Named after David Ross:
Ross Droplet Technique-Eliminating Grinder Static
any specific water? this doesnt affect the burrs with rust or cause any mold growth?

samuellaw178 (original poster)
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#28: Post by samuellaw178 (original poster) »

Downunder55 wrote:Hi Samuel,

Any further update on the H 102 after you have been playing for a while ?

Does it require much effort turning the handle ?

Do you dump all the beans in at once or feed them progressively in ?
Hi Barry,

Unfortunately I have returned it since (had it for a few days I think). My overall impression of the Helor is the ergonomic is excellent. It's really easy to grind, at least two three times less effort than either HG-1 or Pharos. No more difficult than grinding with the small 38mm burrs (on Lido or Helor 101).

The grinding chamber made of solid stainless billet really dampens the grinding noise (generated from beans breaking). I really like this aspect.

The grind adjustment is a nice touch - easy to adjust and does not slip even with the lightest roast I had. Wished there were grind markings (numbers etc) though it should be quite easy to add some. Large sweet spot too.

I'm quite impressed with the alignment and rigidity as well. Visually I could find no fault - the same can't be said about HG-1 or many other grinders I've had in the past. The solid structure really gives you the confidence, it was ridiculous how much length they went into machining the whole thing.

However, I have to say from the limited shots I had, I was very slightly underwhelmed with the taste profile - it was quite good, but somehow I felt it was consistently brighter/more acidic (than Robur/Pharos even). My guess is the aftermarket burrs was its Achilles' heel. The alignment, as I mentioned, is top-notch. So what could possibly be less than optimal, would be either the burrs, or the lack of break in. It wasn't my own grinder so I wasn't in the position to break it in. If I was purchasing one, I will definitely go for the Mazzer Robur burrs and break in the burrs for fair assessment.

About bean loading, I dumped all the beans at once, as what I have always done with any other grinders. However, due to the small opening, it does take a bit more effort than you'd expect to load the beans - to make sure all the beans go in and not elsewhere. Not terribly difficult, but could be better. It's somewhat akin to Pharos where you have to dump the beans in via the small slits.

So in short, I don't think I've seen all the Helor 102 has to offer, but it was quite promising. If there is another opportunity, I really would love to give it another go (proper break in and/or with Robur burrs).

samuellaw178 (original poster)
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#29: Post by samuellaw178 (original poster) »

amagad wrote:any specific water? this doesnt affect the burrs with rust or cause any mold growth?
Regular tap water is fine. This technique has been used by many and was proven to be a reasonable technique to reduce static. Many are using it especially for single dosing (think Monolith grinders, HG-1, Lyn Weber EG1 etc etc)

Ross Droplet Technique-Eliminating Grinder Static

Katoci
Posts: 124
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#30: Post by Katoci »

amagad wrote:any specific water? this doesnt affect the burrs with rust or cause any mold growth?
It's really not that much,just 2 droplets (or puffs if you use the atomizer). Using it for over one year now, and there are no problems at all (had to dimantle my HG1 for allignement).

#Samuellaw178: it was the same when I started using my HG1, it needed over 10kg of cheap cofee to break it in, once that happened, and realligned the burrs, it works perfectly now.