achipman wrote:Got it. Thanks.

So it seems this is a known behavior of the LIDO 2? I had the same thing on my HG-One but it actually caused a problem. I don't *think* this is causing a problem currently on the LIDO 2.

I have a bit of vertical play on my beta unit. Its alignment simply rocks as far as I can tell, so I haven't fussed about this. At one point I wondered whether or not it might have to do with the presence or absence of a spacer washer underneath the inner burr; maybe post a pic of what you've got down there?

Take the screw out of the bottom of the shaft and lift it out of the lower assembly. There is a screw and washer that holds the shaft into that lower assembly. The included wrench fits.

The axial play in the lower bushing is not a problem unless you try grinding while pulling up on the handle and then on the next grind session push down.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Rich, I'm not sure what your directing me to adjust here. Are you saying it might be the screw and washer that need adjustment somehow. Thanks for your patience.

The screw. Unscrew it. It will all come apart. The teflon washer will come off. Empty your mind (bruce lee accent).

To answer achipman's question. The Lido, and the pharos, etc. are shafts held with two bearing and a burr. The shafts move up and down to adjust the grind size. There is no need to push them apart since you aren't grinding upside down or in outer space. Gravity will have the burr as low as you particular grind setting will permit. However, if you lift up the burrs will get closer together and even hit each other. The important thing is that when you push down, the burrs will always be in the exact relationship to each other, i.e. your chosen grind setting. When you grind burrs the burrs are forced apart by the beans, and since they are being forced APART, there is no possible way that they could be moving closer together. You only notice this phenomenon of them moving together when you lift the handle up and the grinder is empty. Sure, you could lift the handle up, but onece you start grinding it's going straight back down to the grid setting unless you are the incredible hulk (the plastic bit would pop off anyway).

It is a bit hard to explain. But if you take your grinder 1/2 apart and just stare at it for a bit it will be very obvious. Try unscrewing the grind setting all the way, then unscrewing the handle, and the bottom screw. Then the shaft will plop out. You can look around and get a good understanding, and your grind setting wont change and you wont have to worry about alignment or anyhting unless you unscrew the clear handle part (full disassembly). A 1/2 disassembly is very quick and takes about 2 minutes once you've had a go.

EDIT: doug chimed in. Actually the washer limits the slack. I was wrong! In my defense, if you unscrew the washer it would normally be the burrs thwacking!

Hello All....I have been watching the various questions about the Lido 2 build and what it all means, if anything, so this seems a good time to illuminate our thoughts on the design and build of the machine.

First, the question of vertical play in the axle. This movement comes from the small gap between the lower washer (the one which holds the adjustment ring in place) and the adjustment ring. The gap is modified by the thickness of the nylon bearing washer which is found on the lower shaft of the inner burr carrier. This nylon washer is 2mm thick and allows for a .5mm space between the lower washer and the adjustment ring. So when assembled there is a .5mm gap and therefor a .5mm vertical play. With each production run we are reducing this gap little by little but it will always be present and it is always noticeable, even when one shims it down to a known gap of .02mm so cranking up the precision does not make the perceived vertical play vanish so this could be cold comfort in manufacturing. This gap can be reduced using stainless shims under the nylon bearing washer to be non existent but the result is that the lower washer can then rub and bind on the adjustment ring. The nylon bearing washer, by the way, is present for increased lubricity of the bearing surfaces and to allow for any user adjustment by shimming. The shims one can use have a 10mm inner diameter and can be purchased in specified thicknesses to remove any and all travel, but some added lubrication may be needed under the stainless washer if you shim it too thick. Also, the nylon washer the wear part in the drive train so in the event that one day there is wear of this part it can be renewed simply and cheaply. The vertical play in the shaft due to this design does not effect the grind quality unless, as has been noted, one initiates the grind with an upward pulling motion on the handle which one has to do purposefully and for not a real good reason.

On the question of the small gap or perceived asymmetry of the inner burr carrier to burr interface....the alignment of the burr face in the horizontal plane is accomplished by the tolerance fit of the axle to the inner burr center hole. The inner burr more or less just sits on the inner burr carrier and the mating of the inner burr and outer burr in the horizontal plane is not controlled by the surface plane of the carrier but by the axle to burr fit. This part has been a bit tricky as it is cast stainless steel which is post cast machined for the lower post and the upper threaded post that secures the carrier to the axle. We began using loktite to secure the burr to the carrier because some owners were loosening the adjustment setting and turning the grinder upside down (usually upon first inspection out of the box). This allowed the burr to slide upwards on the axle and cause the new owner to think that it was broken. The loktite is used because of this chicken little effect and I don't use it on my personal grinders. On some of the inner carriers the burr will only fit on the carrier in one orientation (out of the 3 possible) due to machining of the burr. You see, it turns out that the 3 holes on the face of the inner burr are not specifically tolerance cut. The holes exist for the cutting machine to hold the burr when machining and do not serve any other purpose, therefore there is variation in the spacing of the 3 holes. Our carrier has 3 posts and in some cases the 3 posts do not fit perfectly in all 3 positions of the burr holes. Our carrier is designed and manufactured to high tolerance as far as the posts but the burr is not. We are addressing this as our manufacture continues to change the posts on the carrier to account for the slop in the burr manufacture. A small gap under the inner burr does not effect alignment. If you wish to remove the inner burr simply take out the axle with burr and heat up the burr. I take a leather glove and grip the burr and whack the D end of the axle on a piece of wood with a downward motion. Be sure to clean off all the old loktite before proceeding in whatever direction you which to go here. You may find it prudent to mark the orientation of all the burr parts before you do anything here.

If one attempts a realignment of the OUTER burr using the method shown in our video make sure you do this with the lower retaining washer and screw removed. This allows the inner burr and axle to fall freely when holding the grinder upside down and centering the burr before tightening the 4 screws that hold the outer burr in place. Installing the washer in the bottom is the last step.

As far as ZERO goes, this point is a bit fluid. The HgOne folks got this most brilliantly solved by not talking about zero but instructing the user to find the espresso point and then adjust using that point as a reference. The zero is a relative point and can be the point when one blade touches, 1/4 of the burr, 1/2, etc, depending on how hard you want to crank down the adjuster. Zero becomes much more predictable when the burr is broken in since the high and low spots of burr machining are more evened out (all it takes is one little wire edge on a tooth to make it seem like a major rub). Some of this zero confusion comes from the fact that on a hand grinder you can turn the burr through zero and below. On a hand grinder that cannot be turned while adjusting this perception disappears but on the Lido 2 one can turn the axle and adjust at the same time exposing the machined characteristics of the burr...on most hand grinders (even the new crop of uber hand grinders) one cannot adjust and turn at the same time which creates a better sense of perfection on the part of the user. I use the zero mark as a reference to keep track of my grind setting in a general way but fine tune the grind not by number of turns or marks but by the taste in the cup and performance of the brew in drawdown time, etc.

Yes, the tool fits all of the fasteners on the grinder and this is most handily for cleaning and inspecting/pondering.

Hope all this helps.

Doug

Awesome post Doug--I figured out most of that info by playing with the grinder, but it helps to have it validated by you.

The one part I was wondering about was whether the loktite was necessary (mine is first batch of Lido2 so it was not fastened):

orphanespresso wrote:The loktite is used because of this chicken little effect and I don't use it on my personal grinders.

So, reseating the inner burr on the carrier is pretty much pointless. He shaft holds the inner burr orientation, not the carrier. That means that the inner burr seating is obviously not solution to my problem.

Hi Andy,

I apologize if my question has distracted from the original question. The reason I asked was because I thought they were related.

I may have misunderstood Doug's post, but it sounds like he's saying that the asymmetry is perceived. He also mentions re-aligning the outer burr which may be a nod towards your issue. And now that I'm thinking about your original question, that sounds most likely.

If only one side of the pair exhibits the gap then one or the other is out of alignment. In your case maybe the outer burr.

What did you find upon disassembling the grinder? Have you tried grinding and brewing?

EDIT: Check this out Doug and Barb have done a lot to make sure this grinder works out of the box.