The lesser known Italian espresso grinder manufacturers - Page 3

#21: Post by **emagguy** » March 15th, 2017, 3:27 am

Charlene if you read russel's post carefully, 11g of the 18g were retained from previous grind... basically its in between the burr and the exit chute. So whilst it is true that 18g in 17.8g out, the 11g was whatever thats stuck in the grinder from the previous grind.

The only way you could've found out was when you first used your grinder, you record the amount of the coffee beans you put in, and how much of it purged out. Or you can do it now by cleaning and emptying the grinder thoroughly and weigh in / weigh out again.

That is what russel meant by retention I believe..

#22: Post by **tohenk2** » March 15th, 2017, 3:59 am

La San Marco are considered to be good grinders for shops and other coffee industry. The brand also makes espressomachines. They don't aim at the home-user, at least not here in the Netherlands.

#23: Post by **Charlene** » March 20th, 2017, 12:45 pm

emagguy wrote:Charlene if you read russel's post carefully, 11g of the 18g were retained from previous grind... basically its in between the burr and the exit chute. So whilst it is true that 18g in 17.8g out, the 11g was whatever thats stuck in the grinder from the previous grind.

The only way you could've found out was when you first used your grinder, you record the amount of the coffee beans you put in, and how much of it purged out. Or you can do it now by cleaning and emptying the grinder thoroughly and weigh in / weigh out again.

That is what russel meant by retention I believe..

Hi KC,

Seems, sorting out of nomenclature is important in the discussion between 'residual' grinds and 'retained' grinds.

No doubt, there are residual grinds of a notable amount; grinds that build up, cake on, become immobile; grinds that can only be removed by disassembling the business end of the grinder vs retained grinds from grinding the previous dose than are flushed when grinding the next dose.

The G-60 I have is noted as a relatively 'aggressive grinder.' That said, it would be logical to consider the exit force of grinds leaving the burrs as having an effect on 'retained grinds' between two doses.

#24: Post by **malling** » March 20th, 2017, 6:49 pm

emagguy wrote:Charlene if you read russel's post carefully, 11g of the 18g were retained from previous grind... basically its in between the burr and the exit chute. So whilst it is true that 18g in 17.8g out, the 11g was whatever thats stuck in the grinder from the previous grind.

The only way you could've found out was when you first used your grinder, you record the amount of the coffee beans you put in, and how much of it purged out. Or you can do it now by cleaning and emptying the grinder thoroughly and weigh in / weigh out again.

That is what russel meant by retention I believe..

Hardly, mixing is going on inside the grinder chamber so old grind, is expelled with new grind. If you have looked at the chut wheile grinding, that is full are partly full, you would have noticed that the grinds coming from behind will make a passway through it, first after some seconds past there is movement accross the whole exit.

So it takes allot more grinds then the equal amount to replace it.

#25: Post by **RikC** » March 23rd, 2017, 5:59 pm

Hey Fiorenzato appears to have introduced new model varants with a XG and XGR suffix and 64 and 83mm flat burrs or 71mm conical ones.

Special mention... weight based grinding!

And even wilder... automatic portafilter indentification via an rfid tag that can be attached to the handle for the XGR models

http://www.fiorenzato.it/en/tipologia/m ... ettronici/

March 23rd, 2017, 10:00 pm

RikC wrote:Hey Fiorenzato appears to have introduced new model varants with a XG and XGR suffix and 64 and 83mm flat burrs or 71mm conical ones.

Special mention... weight based grinding! And even wilder... automatic portafilter indentification via an rfid tag that can be attached to the handle for the XGR models

http://www.fiorenzato.it/en/tipologia/m ... ettronici/

This is a great idea. I'm surprised this hasn't been thought of previously.

#27: Post by **emagguy** » March 23rd, 2017, 10:58 pm

Well spotted!

I saw it before but I struggled to find anyone who has them / any reviews with the weigh function and the RFID.

#28: Post by **russel** » March 24th, 2017, 11:21 am

If you watch the demo videos at the Fiorenzato website it becomes apparent that these aren't actually dosing by weight. There's a calibration action during which the grinder calculates the approximate grind rate using a timer and a built in scale, which is then used to convert a programmable dose weight into a grind time. I think Baratza did/does something like this with the Forte so that you can use the PF holder. The biggest indicator of this is when they specify the break-in period for each burr type, durring which they indicate that dosed weights may vary, which wouldn't happen if it was actually dosing by weight using a scale.

The biggest drawback to this system is that it looks like you have to let the electronics burn about 40g of coffee every time you make a grind adjustment...tighter grinds grind more slowly and thus the electronics need to calculate a new grind rate. You also have to have a decent amount in the hopper to maintain pressure to maintain a consistent grind rate. It actually looks like a great product for moderate skill commercial environments.

#29: Post by **Felice** » March 24th, 2017, 3:38 pm

I have two La San Marco grinders, both sm90s. 64mm flats, never had any trouble with either. I need to sell one if I ever get off my butt. There's an 84mm LSM flat on fleabay, or was last time I checked, for 250$, IIRC. I find mine to be utterly easy to use. I have a butter knife that, when coupled with a smack or two, allows me to clear the majority of retained grinds. They are not finicky, rarely need adjustment from day to day. Really, I can't say enough about how swell the LSMs work.