Hello All:

I thought I'd post some experience with the Lelit PL53 that is less than ideal and seek your advice.

When using an oily, dark roast, the beans don't feed from the hopper into the grinder. Stirring them and jostling the machine don't help much. The only thing I've found helpful (and messy) was something to be tried only very carefully. I removed the hopper and used a piece of cardboard to put minimal pressure on the beans at the top of the grinder entry. I do this to avoid any risk of putting anything in there other than beans. Then they started to feed through. But short of coating the oily beans with turkish ground coffee so they don't stick together, do you have any better ideas? (Since writing this, I've tried pulsing the grinder, which helps a little bit but output is still sporadic.)

The hopper itself is a thin plastic and the lower edges of its spout have broken off when I mistakenly tried to move it to get the beans to feed through. If you have similar problems, don't jostle the hopper! It's still good enough to fit the entry and use.

At the bottom of the hopper, there's a little cap so that beans don't go straight down into the grinder. I expect that's there to keep the hopper from filling too many beans if you remove it (I know, an opportunity for some puns!). I'm wondering whether to remove the little cap so beans feed directly. A new hopper if this experiment fails is about $22.

There are tabs to supposedly help the user position the portafilter under the chute. This prevents my portafilter from fitting under the chute once it starts to fill, and I'm considering removing those tabs using a Dremel tool. Currently I need to fill a small teacup to finish off the dosing instead of using only the portafilter. Static builds up in the cup and it's messy.

For those who don't know, the chute is held on by a screw, but it's so hard to force the chute back into position, I don't remove it. The screw itself is so long that it's arduous to put it all the way in. So I've chosen to screw it in just enough to hold the chute. Also, I don't remove the chute but rock the machine on the counter to get the stale grounds out. Again, this is messy.

I'm putting this feedback up here to share some of the difficulties with use and feel of this otherwise high quality, low priced grinder. I'll forward this post to Jim Piccinich at 1st-Line for his response.

What are your thoughts and suggestions, other than spend upwards of $350 for a different grinder?

I thought I'd post some experience with the Lelit PL53 that is less than ideal and seek your advice.

Gary, there is no grinder that will meet everyone's needs. With many hundreds and counting of these sold, these grinders do meet the needs of many customers with about only 5-7 returns. I would agree that no single one grinder would be ideal for everyone.

When using an oily, dark roast, the beans don't feed from the hopper into the grinder. Stirring them and jostling the machine don't help much. The only thing I've found helpful (and messy) was something to be tried only very carefully. I removed the hopper and used a piece of cardboard to put minimal pressure on the beans at the top of the grinder entry. I do this to avoid any risk of putting anything in there other than beans. Then they started to feed through. But short of coating the oily beans with turkish ground coffee so they don't stick together, do you have any better ideas? (Since writing this, I've tried pulsing the grinder, which helps a little bit but output is still sporadic.)

Beans that are oily are usually larger. In Italy, the roasters do not normally roast as dark. Hence the beans are smaller and the grinder manufacturers design with smaller passageways. This is common on almost all Italian grinders below a Macap/Mazzer, etc.

At the bottom of the hopper, there's a little cap so that beans don't go straight down into the grinder. I expect that's there to keep the hopper from filling too many beans if you remove it (I know, an opportunity for some puns!). I'm wondering whether to remove the little cap so beans feed directly. A new hopper if this experiment fails is about $22.

The cap is know as a finger guard. When large beans are being used, you can, at your own option and liability, remove it. Keep in mind we do not make this recommendation due to liability reasons - for example a small child may stick their fingers inside and turn on the grinder.

There are tabs to supposedly help the user position the portafilter under the chute. This prevents my portafilter from fitting under the chute once it starts to fill, and I'm considering removing those tabs using a Dremel tool. Currently I need to fill a small teacup to finish off the dosing instead of using only the portafilter. Static builds up in the cup and it's messy.

Most 58mm portafilters do fit. Since you bought only this demo model for $199, I am not sure what machine you have. I only get static on my PL53 grinder when I grind very coarse or when I use certain blends.

For those who don't know, the chute is held on by a screw, but it's so hard to force the chute back into position, I don't remove it. The screw itself is so long that it's arduous to put it all the way in. So I've chosen to screw it in just enough to hold the chute. Also, I don't remove the chute but rock the machine on the counter to get the stale grounds out. Again, this is messy.

If you are looking for an espresso grinder to easily remove the chute after every pull, please let us know know as we would be interested in carrying it. In other words, this chute was not designed for easy everyday cleaning.

What are your thoughts and suggestions, other than spend upwards of $350 for a different grinder?

These higher priced grinders may be the 'ideal' grinder you are looking for.

Jim and others,

First, I believe that the Lelit PL53 is a breakthrough in performance for its price point -- a bargain with fixable problems. When I put on my marketing hat, it shows where there's a "hole in the market" and that it's possible to offer an actual espresso grinder for a more reasonable price. Probably many people give up pursuing an espresso hobby because they can't afford it, so lower price could achieve higher sales volume and more foodies taking on this hobby. I've created another post suggesting that people may be able to find starter machines much less expensive than the Rancilio Silvia, for instance. (See For low budget is Saeco Magic Cappuccino Plus much different than Silvia? Back to the Lelit PL53, which I bought as a refurb, I'm going to keep it and am using it to get pretty good results. And no way can my wallet or marriage afford $350 for a grinder during this Great Recession!)

Usability Suggestions

My usability suggestions are intended to direct the manufacturer's attention through Jim, their U.S. rep, beyond functionality of the grinding mechanism and its attractive, compact appearance to what's needed to make it easier and less messy to use. Such modifications in a future model shouldn't be expensive to do, and they'll eliminate many hassles. These aren't "complaints" about a bad machine but suggestions for improving it.

Tabs. If it's going to have tabs for positioning the portafilter, make them adjustable. Otherwise eliminate them. There are a variety of portafilters out there, both 53 and 58mm. Some have handles attached in different ways. The handle for mine and its 53mm size make it deeper than is allowed for with the tabs on this grinder. I'm not the only one who's posted needing to catch grinds in a cup. I don't see much need for a fixed, guiding tab for a portafilter anyway. If you can hold it under the spout while pressing the start button there, who needs training wheels? The start button is correctly placed just below the top edge of any portafilter, and that's all the guidance that's needed.

Hopper. This is a solid, high quality grinder with an extremely flimsy, thin plastic hopper. It would be great to have a metal replacement available and for new models to have a higher quality hopper. Already the bottom edge where my hopper enters the grinder is chipping off. This is kind of like buying a Harley fitted with Vespa scooter tires.

The use of a cap at the bottom of the hopper as a finger guard makes sense. Thanks, Jim, for explaining that. If I had kids in the house, I would leave it on. I appreciate that there are screws that hold that cap in place so it can be easily removed, which I've just done. I'm getting good results using my dark roasted, oily beans, BTW.

I found another workaround too. If I wanted to keep the cap on and make dark roast beans feed more easily, I've had success mixing in a small amount of a lighter, non-oily roast, not very different from the espresso talc suggestion I'd thought of earlier.

Chute problems. About difficulty removing the chute for cleaning, there are countless posts on this site emphasizing freshness of grounds. Anyone who wants to make a high quality shot would like cleaning the chute to be as easy as possible. I'm not the only one who has posted about the extreme difficulty of replacing the chute once it's been removed. I'm 6'3" and in good shape. It takes every bit of hand strength I have to oomph the chute into place. This is a design oversight. It's compounded by an unusually long set screw. I'm surprised the engineers at Lelit didn't take the time to figure out a way to make the chute easily removable and replaceable for cleaning. I don't expect my machine to be fixed (no need for a Toyota recall!). But I'm suggesting that this feature be improved. All it takes is moving the location of the screw hole and having a larger gauge, shorter length set screw or better yet, some clip-on feature. But one only knows the difficulty of using this feature by using it. Apparently they didn't do so.

Static? Here, perhaps Jim and others can help me. I'm not surprised or flustered by static build-up. Isn't this something anyone should expect when you're creating friction by grinding? Does it make a difference if it's a refurb or new or better machine? How do other machines or other people deal with static build-up, if they do so at all? I just tap the teacup until the grinds shake loose. Of course if I could directly fill the portafilter ...

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Gary

Gary,

thanks. I will share with Lelit.

I've had a great experience with my PL53 (to the point of preferring it to my Super Jolly). I might not be using beans as oily/dark as you are (on that note, what blend/bean/roaster is it?), but I find that the feed is more consistent (and less staticy) if I pour in more than one dose (at least filling the hopper up to or above the finger guard). As for the PF fitting on the tabs, my 45mm portafilter has no problem with that, but I think when I used a 58mm PF I didn't have much trouble either. Have you tried removing the spring clip inside the PF (if your PF has one) and spinning the basket with your thumb while you grind? This has given me a better distribution (and might alleviate some of the issues with not getting enough beans in). I do notice grinds flying around more once the basket starts to get full, but lifting the basket up and lightly dropping it back down helps with that (this should be the same as lightly tapping down on the counter if you have a clip that prevents you from gently lifting up the basket, and if you're against tapping the PF for distribution reasons, then this tip may not be for you).

Good luck, and once again, I'm really enjoying this grinder. One thing that may help with the chute removability issue is removing the metal cover over the top of the grinder (four phillips screws, two in front and two in back; you can then use one of those screws to attach the chute to one of the two now-exposed holes on the part of the burr chamber sticking out). This also allows easier access to the worm gear mechanism in case you need to unscrew the worm gear mount so that you can freely rotate the top burr for cleaning. The hopper still fits into the top burr carrier as before. Note that this is my own opinion - I don't know if 1st-Line support would be too happy to hear this if you're still under warranty.

Jim, if you'd prefer some of that edited down for public safety, I'd be happy to oblige. (Let me know via PM/email if anything should be cut out, including this line?)

Hi Gary,
I've been using the le'lit grinder for just over 2 years now and can share some on the same issues I've had.

I don't grind directly into the portafilter. That's in the machine staying hot while I grind and dose to the basket. The portafilter holder tabs were nothing but in the way for my use. Instead of cutting them off with a dremel.(SS is tough to cut and the results might look rough!) I removed the sides and folded/flattened those tabs over, tucking them in and out of sight. It was an easy job for the vice and looks clean.

I also ended up just leaving the cover off the burr housing. Easy access to clean the burrs and the chute is held on by a very short bamboo skewer. No tools required for access to clean the chute.

If you want to make it easier to get that screw on and off, I just reamed out the 'guide hole' so that it is an easy fit. They are hard to align so just give it more room to align. (This is something the manufacturer can do easy)

I have the same problem with the bottom of the hopper, where it fits into the burr top; has chipped and cracked. I removed this broken bit and still was able to use what is left to secure it. I've heard this problem on quite a few; Obviously a weak spot. Maybe I should order an extra hopper to have on hand but it has been stable for a long time now.

For static, I have not had any problems with this grinder. I would suggest to find a metal container to drop the grind into. It is likely the cup you are using is serving to store the charge.

I have not had any feed problems but I have not used any oily beans either.

For the grind quality and consistency and adjustment, I have been extremely happy with this little grinder.
Fluffy, clump free and static free grinds directly from a doserless grinder that fits on my counter.

Thanks, Gary, for those suggestions.

I'll try dosing into the portafilter directly after I preheat it. Seems easier than removing the basket and it'll eliminate the static problem. Otherwise, I like your idea of dosing into a metal cup.

Can I ask you to clarify a couple of things?

When you say that you've removed the burr housing, what does that expose, and what's the benefit?

When you folded in the tabs using a vise, how did you keep from marring the stainless steel finish? Did you use wood for padding or the cardboard backing from a note pad or something like that?

BTW, I'm using oily beans to still get intense flavor because I'm filtering the espresso to take out the cafestol and kahweol that elevate cholesterol and may harm liver function. This comes out of that long discussion on the site about cholesterol and espresso. See The effect of espresso drinking on cholesterol if interested. My search for recovering decent flavor is on page 5.

The 'cover over the burr housing' I removed is the same as Dan refers to; 4 phillips screws, it is the part the chute has so much trouble fitting into. You have to remove this cover to clean out the burrs. It's function serves to 'look nice'. After removing and replacing to clean out the burrs (about monthly) I thought to save the trouble and just leave it off. (It's in the drawer, anytime I can just put it back on.) The chute hangs on the burr housing, by the screw hole, with the cover removed. It works fine like that for me anyway, but really has no bearing on anything but the time it takes to clean out the burrs.

Yes I used something smooth in the vice, and need some work to get started past the 90 degree bend. If you are creative you might come up with a way to do it without removing the sides from the grinder.

I mostly prefer a medium roast for the flavor balance so the beans may show some oil spots but not close to a sheen.

Dan,

Didn't see your post earlier! I'm doing a couple of unusual things for people on this site. I'm filtering my espresso and sacrificing some of the subtlety I would otherwise have when I remove the the cafestol and kahweol. As noted earlier, this is because I have heart disease and need to maintain ideal cholesterol levels (which I do and am checking out quite well lately). Also, being a newbie, I've been working toward adequate quality on inexpensive equipment. Because of the cholesterol, I'm pulling shots that are more intense and slightly more bitter than I'd want to otherwise. The filtering mellows that out. But I'm also looking for intensity of flavor to go through milk drinks, since I'm not trying for super quality ristrettos. (If I want to take a dietary break for a moment, and I want a great double ristretto, I go to Blue Bottle on my way to work and have them pull a "reference shot"! But I only do this rarely.) So the oily, dark beans are an experiment for this unusual situation. Now I expect some of you will hold your noses when I say this, but I've had the best success so far with Peerless French Roast bought at the Safeway. I didn't come on these by accident. My haircutter said he was surprised at how good that was, and in most things he has pretty refined taste. Does Peerless compare to Blue Bottle Hayes Valley Espresso by itself or in a latte unfiltered? No way. Now I don't have the budget to buy something like an E61 machine with PID to reliably create a fine ristretto once a month. So my $2 reference shot is a great bargain when I have it! When I tried the Hayes Valley filtered, it was pretty boring and the Peerless in my equipment, basic as it is, is much better. What's missing, then, are the sweet and mellow middle tones. So now I'm getting more improvement by mixing in about 1/4 Blue Bottle Roma Espresso with the Peerless French Roast. As noted above, this stops the Peerless beans from sticking to each other. Roma is a darker blend than their Hayes Valley but not intense or oily, and I'm getting that middle that was missing.

I had posted on the cholesterol thread asking people's suggestions for intense, gourmet quality beans, and no one responded, although offline Adrian (drdna) suggested that a single origin bean might work for this.

The portafilter in my inexpensive machine was equipped with one of those artificial crema valves. I removed that, but the handle still connects in an unusual way that makes the portafilter deeper than most. So it just doesn't fit with those tabs and I have no choice but to catch the grinds in another vessel, which will now be metal to reduce the static. I'll probably bend back the tabs to get them out of the way, when I have time.

I was already filling the hopper, but that wasn't preventing the clumping of oily beans. Now I've removed the cover at the bottom, so there won't be any more feed problems.

Thanks for the suggestion about removing the burr cover. I'll check it out. No worries about liability. If I do that and have problems trying to grind fingers as well as beans, as politicians and CEOs love to say, "I take full responsibility"!

In all, I'm grateful to the people on this site for their reviews of the Lelit PL53. This is my first high quality grinder, and is no comparison, of course, to the blade grinder I thought I could get away with. As politicians and CEOS love to say ...

Compared to other grinders on the market, I think it's amazing what Le'Lit was able to put together with the PL53. I've had to get used to some small issues with the ergonomics, but I think that's going to be true of just about any grinder.

However, if there's one change I would make, it would be to reduce the grind retention somehow (obviously not a simple change). The chamber right below the burrs holds quite a bit of old grinds, and there's no amount of sweeping around with brushes or chopsticks that will get it all out, so eventually I have to open it up and pull the burr assembly apart to get everything nice and clean. Ideally I'd do this everyday, or even every week, but I'd end up wasting as many beans as I'd drink just getting everything re-adjusted.

If I could dream there would be another model with the same burrset, but it would be belt driven, and the grinds would drop straight down, if they could add a funnel and sweeper like the Versalab grinder I'd happily pay twice as much as for the current design.