There are a few other threads on HB that discuss flat vs. conical burrs (Flat vs. Conical, Conical vs. Flat and MKX vs. SJ), but I haven't seen anything directly reporting usage patterns from owners.

From the "First impressions of SJ to K10" thread...

another_jim wrote:It's an interesting comparison. The 64mm flat and the 68mm conical are industry standard grinders; and Italians know espresso well enough so that industry standard gear are fairly sure bets.

I'd agree that the industry standard 64-83mm flat burr grinders are suitable for their intended purpose: getting the best out of one coffee at a time. Odd, then, that there appears to be a local trend toward conicals and away from flats. It seems that the intended purpose has changed as well.

I don't see a lot of reputable local cafes pushing espresso-as-convenience, mounting Illy cans, or otherwise following what has anecdotally defined on HB here (dosing for traditional espresso), here (FAQ for "today's scene") or here (thoughts on Italian espresso blend) as "Italian" espresso. Instead, they're dialling in and calibrating to wring out the highlights for whatever coffees are on hand, usually with the emphasis on distinct flavor notes. From what I'm seeing on other threads discussing local cafes, this trend exists elsewhere in the US as well. Yet, all of these cafes are garnering favorable reviews for their pours.

It seems logical to propose that, as the goal changes, the tools and methods used to achieve that goal may change as well. Flat burrs give way to conical burrs. Dosers give way to electronic timers, and in turn to weighing devices. Measurement of flow and ristretto/normale/lungo gives way to extraction ratios.

The recent Get Together has further reinforced my opinion of the SJ as a competent performer when dialled in, but less consistent during the course of a busy day and requiring regular adjustments throughout the course of the day. The conical was more consistent and predictable in its responses to adjustment, on this day and for our usage. My experience here, combined with the recent local visits and conversations with baristas and owners, leads me to posit the following:

Flat burr grinders, not just the SJ, can be great for one SO/blend at a time, but can be difficult to dial in.

Larger conical grinders are great for one SO/blend at a time, but can also handle multiple coffees in a session and are easier to dial in.

So, for all of you who own larger flat burr and Titan grinders (K30, ProM, Major, SJ, M80, M7D vs. Robur, K10, Kony, MXKR etc.), what's your usage pattern? Do you work through one coffee at a time, or switch between several in a session/day? Also, what coffee flavors do you seek out/prefer? Do you like the sweet, syrupy chocolate bombs? The funky, savory umami hits? The high-toned, floral fruity acid notes? I suspect that there may be a correlation here...

I have been wondering if someone who owns several top grinders can actually claim, that based on comparative studies he is using a flat over conical burr grinder exclusively for certain bean roasts (or vice versa), and that's only because of cup related performance. Maybe we do not hear about it because this is extremely expensive proposition for obvious reasons, and also perhaps because most consumers might not appreciate such fine nuances in the espresso cup.
My curiosity came to life when I read story of Ditting, a company that approached this problem as they probably should, and developed several discreet burr-gears, based on the application. I think they have different burr sets for Espresso, Filter, and Turkish. I conclude that to a dilettante and outsider to coffee business as I am, the burr geometry as it relates to application must be then important, otherwise why waste money on it? Yes I know, processing volumes, throughputs, generated heat, etc. are all factors of the same equation, but those issues could be resolved differently, thus it comes back to question - which burr geometry is best for my life style?

Sakae wrote:I have been wondering if someone who owns several top grinders can actually claim, that based on comparative studies he is using a flat over conical burr grinder exclusively for certain bean roasts (or vice versa), and that's only because of cup related performance.

Billy Wilson, a superb barista, used to claim, and maybe still does, that conical grinders are easier and more consistent, but that you cannot absolutely nail a tricky blend with one as well as with a flat burr grinder. I've heard comparisons to tennis rackets and gulf clubs with big, but less precise sweetspots, versus those with small but very precise ones.

This is rubbish if you look at small flats like the Mini which aways perform worse. Also, I never got a great shot with a 64mm flat that I couldn't get with the 68mm conical. But I have no experience with the 80 to 85mm range of flat burr grinders, which are the ones that compete directly with the commercial conicals in terms of size and price. The Mazzer Major never had many vocal supporters on the forums, but Anfims Super Caimano did. Now it's the turn of the Mahlkoenigs, which have 64mm burrs, but which get an extra 20mm credited to them because of the brand's reputation. There may be some who ran these side by side with conicals and switched in their favor.

Sherman, my big flat burr grinder has made me happy, and I do fit the profile of the "one coffee at a time" type of guy. I might have two coffees in the freezer at a given time, but switches are infrequent. One prominent influencer in the environment is my SO with her laser-like taste precision, who, when a coffee different from our usual blend is served, will invariably remark "Can't we have our regular coffee?"

When I do switch coffees, it can take several tries to dial it in, but thereafter I adjust to coffee aging by dose variation and rarely fiddle with grinder adjustment.

Acid-forward coffees are a place I like to visit, especially away from home, but thusfar, we don't like to live there.

another_jim wrote: ...the Mahlkoenigs, which have 64mm burrs, but which get an extra 20mm credited to them because of the brand's reputation.

Pretty funny!

I use a Mahlkönig K30 ES large flat burr grinder and I do not switch beans often.

I am the only one in my house who can stand to drink my espresso so a 12 oz bag lasts me a week. I used to open more than one bag in the past but found the last half of the 2nd bag was not giving good results so I changed my habit. If I like the taste then drinking the same coffee for a week is OK.

I buy 1 kg bags which I freeze. Whenever a bag is finished, I open the next bag. 68 conical. Whenever I buy new coffee, I mostly buy coffee I haven't had before.
Amidoinitright?

I own a Compaq K10 WBC, but I don't have what you call a Large Flat.

I tend to run through 6 oz of a given coffee at a time, but I don't use a hopper. I grind by the shot almost exclusively. If I really love the coffee, or if I'm feeling lazy and have another jar of the same coffee, I'll pull another jar out of the freezer when the current jar is exhausted. If I want to try a brand-new coffee, want to change things up, or don't have any of the previous coffee left, I'll pull a different coffee out of the freezer. In other words, it all depends on supply and how I'm feeling that day.

The K10's consistency and compatibility with single-dosing makes this possible. The consistency makes it quick and easy to dial in a different coffee. Single-dosing means I don't have to jump through a lot of hoops to clean out the previous beans or grind (waste) what's left in the grinder throat. The grinder is ready for another coffee immediately after I sweep the chute and doser for a shot.

The K10 is all about consistency, and I understand that this is the trademark of Titan grinders. I weigh all my doses and shots, and my GS/3 has a shot timer built in. I often marvel at the consistency of the time it takes to pull a shot of a particular target weight, over and over. I also find the grind setting range to be remarkably consistent. For example, 14g doses usually require a setting near the 25 mark, while 18g doses require a setting near the 30 mark. This varies a little with the type of coffee, age of the coffee and humidity, but not a whole lot -- maybe one or two setting marks at the most. With normal humidity and fresh coffee, the marks themselves represent on the order of 5-10 seconds of flow time, depending on the grind setting and dose.

All this makes it really easy to dial in the grind setting. For a given dose, it rarely takes more than one shot to get the setting right (though of course that doesn't address best dose and temperature.)

I've never used a Large Flat, but I do have a Baratza Vario. While it's capable of producing very good shots, and is more consistent than much more expensive grinders, it's more tedious to dial in a coffee with the BV. The grind settings sometimes need to be changed as the level of beans in the hopper changes and/or the coffee ages, humidity changes, etc. I also feel that the BV's grind setting isn't completely stable -- it isn't unusual for random shots to be way off. That aspect is peculiar to the BV and wouldn't be the case with more sturdily-built large flat grinders like the Major.

Usage pattern: one coffee at a time; a second coffee goes to a second grinder.

Preferred Flavor Profile(s): chocolate notes; fruity/floral bright acid notes. (both)

Grinder(s): Mahlkönig K30 Vario (65mm "special tool" steel flat burrs); Baratza Vario, aka Mahlkönig VARIO Home (54mm ceramic flat burrs).

Peppersass wrote:Single-dosing means I don't have to jump through a lot of hoops to clean out the previous beans

What do you call all the motor bumping and chute brushing for every shot?

What do you call all the motor bumping and chute brushing for every shot?

you should try cleaning the grounds out of your grinder or changing beans with a full hopper. that should help answer your question. if you read the whole paragraph, it's self explanatory why Dick prefers single dosing.