Hello forum. Long time lurker, but first time poster.

For background, I have been a coffee enthusiast since 96 and worked in and around the industry off an on since then. Although I try to make coffee in any way possible, my main preference is typically espresso based drinks. Being a home barista I've made the usual upward progressions of home espresso machines over the years. Then about a year ago I picked up a La Pavoni europiccola and very much enjoy using it. I am the only espresso drinker in the house so it's plenty capable for my needs and a pleasure to use. I was also excited to put back into use a La Pavoni Zip grinder I had packed away some time ago. Thankfully I had the forethought to deep clean it and pack it safe as it ended up in storage for nearly a decade. It fired right up and I've been using it since.

Recently though, I have been questioning stepping down to a smaller and more importantly doserless grinder. This last weekend I had dinner with a friend and was able to try out his Rancilio Rocky. I was immediately aware of all the things that irritate me about my Zip. It's really big. It doesnt fit under my cabinets with the hopper. And the doser seems to waste more coffee than it uses when your only grinding one portafilters worth of beans. The Rocky appeared to solve all those issues.

A few local friends I've talked to think the Zip is a far superior machine and that a Rocky would be a step backwards. I might agree in a commercial setting, but to be honest, I have zero experience with anything other than the Zip and the other commercial grinders I've used at shops.

What I have is working and free. Is it silly to go spend money for a potentially lesser grinder?

Anyone have experience with both grinders in use with a Europiccola?

Thanks for any points in the right direction.
Brad - Denver co

You'll find few if any here who'd recommend going to a Rocky from you Zip. With proper mods (vane sweeps) and quick brush of channel using a doser as a grinds dispenser works just fine at home, especially single dosing rather than using a hopper.

For reference at home I used a Rocky for 6 years, then similar class to Zip (Super Jolly) for a couple years and currently use a Mazzer Major with doser at home. Others here use up to and including Mazzer Roburs at home, seriously. Grind quality matters more than being small and necessarily looking at home in the kitchen.

I'll also add that I think the Pavoni espresso machines are especially eager to be fed well ground beans so every time I stepped up the grinder paired with my Pavoni I thought the espresso had an immediate positive impact on the ease of pulling good shots. (Solis Maestro to Macap M4 to Super Jolly). I don't think you'll be happy if you move backwards. If you must move to a smaller grinder go for a Vario as it paired reasonably well with the Pavoni (about on par with the SJ). My hunch is that with a pump machine that last step from M4 to SJ might not have been as big as it was with the Pavoni (the best shots were comparable, it is just that the they came more often with the SJ), but then again I could be wrong since I didn't get a pump machine until I had the SJ.

Then again you are asking this question on HB, where we more or less all like overkill, so you may assume that the answer from most is likely to be "too much grinder" - what could that mean, it doesn't make sense?

I suggest making arrangements to pull shots from your machine using both grinders, and evaluate the results. My hunch is the Zip will prove its worth.

If you have serious concerns about your zip's size, a Baratza Vario is roughly the same quality, and is pretty consistent provided you don't adjust from one end of the spectrum to the other regularly. I would actually like to have a second. I don't think you're going to find anyone who would recommend a rocky .

Thank you for the replies! All good info and viewpoint.

@ Compass Coffee...I had considered modding the Zip to somehow do away with the doser all together. Being essentially modular the entire dosing unit comes off without much fuss, but I havent thought up a decent way to create a proper "chute" to extend the outlet and prevent it from spewing grounds straight out.

As for the hopper, it now resides in the cupboard. I just dose enough beans into the top for my shot, and cover it with a small wooden lid. Works fine. The coffee I'm losing is while dosing it to the portafilter. Because I'm not filling the doser, the grounds seem to be thrown out as opposed to dropping out the bottom. Not sure if that even makes sense. I think one issue I may be having is that the portafilter "fork" broke long ago, so I just sort of hover under the exit. My attempts at sourcing or even finding a replacement have come up empty.

I certainly understand the lack of practicality when it comes to this hobby. Not a stranger to overkill at all. I love that the grinder matches the espresso machine and that it has a 2lb hopper. To be honest, my first inclination was that I wanted...no...NEEDED a second Europiccola to better suit the grinder's capabilities. Because reasons.

Anyway. It's something I had been knocking around in my head and the chance to actually mess with the Rocky in person brought it to the surface. Figured it would be worth asking about. Its about time to order a new set of burrs and give it a good cleaning, so maybe I'll brainstorm on some mods to get it dialed in.

Your grinder is a little limited by its own design. Cleaned and serviced, you may be able to sell it for the cost of a better replacement.

I have the Zip, I put a mazzer mini hopper on it, wrapped some uhmw tape around the base and it fits nicely under my cabinet (in boulder if you want to see it, should be a pic on the forum of it here). Its noisy, messy and not stepless but it was a steal for me and make great espresso. I can't help with the Rocky.

I ordered parts for my Zip from http://www.cafeparts.com/listCategories ... oryID=2904 which is denver btw.

As far as commercial grinders in the home, the Zip is one of the less friendly models due to its design.

But as far as grind quality, you would be taking a huge step down by going to a Rocky.


Im not saying dont buy a smaller grinder, Im saying, if you just can't live with the Zip, the rocky is not the solution.


What I would suggest is this:

1-Don't worry that the hopper doesn't fit on the grinder in your kitchen, a large portion of us don't have hoppers on our grinders, and those who do, often have a very small version. Ive had a bunch of large commercial grinders in my time, and I rarely use the hopper.

2-Learn to single dose the grinder, using the "bump and brush" method. This generally uses a .1gram scale, and what you do, simply put, is weigh out X grams of beans, dump them into the grinder, grind them through into the doser. Then, using a brush, clear out the chute where the ground coffee is expelled into the doser. "Bump" the power switch on then off. Brush the chute again. Repeat 2-4 times as needed until the chute is clean.

3-Now you have all of the dose in the doser, ideally. Dose into the basket, continue your shot prep from there.

My personal opinion has long been that this is really the "right" way to use a large commercial grinder with a doser at home. Perhaps right way is too bold. Its one of the best ways to minimize waste. I have a compak K10, and Im starting to play around with keeping a load of beans in a small hopper, like half a bag or so, and, purely from a wasting coffee perspective, Im definitely wasting more then If I was single dosing.

There is plenty of discussion on single dosing use of a grinder, and the many different ways of doing it slightly different from grinder to grinder, along with discussion about small mods, specifically adding sweepers to the doser vanes so the doser is swept 100% clean, or as close to 100% as possible.


If you would rather just get a smaller grinder, Id definitely look at the Baratza Vario. Most would agree it produces a grind quality on par with a Super Jolly, which I believe is the burr size of your Zip, so, it wouldn't be a downgrade in grind quality. There is also other more home-use friendly doser grinders.. Mazzer grinders, with two free, simple and easy to do mods, become VERY home friendly and very waste free.

... about a year ago I picked up a La Pavoni europiccola and very much enjoy using it. I am the only espresso drinker in the house so it's plenty capable for my needs and a pleasure to use.

I use my La Pavoni Europiccola to make one cappuccino and 2 espressos daily. For those purposes my OE Pharos hand-grinder is more than adequate. I moved to that from a Rocky, which I could never get dialled in properly due to its stepped settings. With the Rocky, I struggled to get a 1/4 inch of crema; with the Pharos it's been all-crema pulls since day one. And, finally, the Pharos is cheaper than electric alternatives.