Hello,

With my summer internship ending soon, I realized that in my past two summers in East Fishkill, NY, I had never made it to the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, NY, and I decided that today would be the day. I went to the Apple Pie Cafe and Bakery, the most casual (and inexpensive) of the school's restaurants. By the time I had gotten there at 6:15, all of the good dishes were sold out and I settled for a tuna sandwich (they close at 6:30). The tuna sandwich and apple macaroon dessert were nothing exciting considering where I was (and how much I paid), but that's left for a discussion at another time and place.

Now back to the subject: the La Marzocco Swift grinder. CIA has a Linea EE + Swift setup for their shots of Counter Culture Toscano. While the shot wasn't bad by any means, I think I could top it when my Gaggia is playing nicely, and an NYC cafe such as Everyman Espresso would blow that shot out of the water. Just to be clear, I'm not posting this to knock CIA, I'm posting this to ask about the grinder. I've had other Swift-ground espresso shots before and there's always been something that has seemed a bit off from the quality that could be achieved by a good barista with a Robur (or similar). Knowing that the CIA cafe is not limited by their beans, is it safe to assume that the added automation of the Swift that adds to the shot consistency actual detracts from the taste compared to a more manual setup? Can a Swift be dialed in to produce shots equivalent to a Robur/Compak/Anfim paired up with the same Linea?

To summarize what I'm really asking: is a Swift-based setup better than the best super auto, but worse than the best manual setup?

Thanks!

A note to those considering a visit to CIA's Apple Pie Cafe and Bakery: I suggest that you visit before 5 if you plan to go for dinner. The choices that were sold out looked delicious (braised lamb shank, pork chop, etc.), and if I could make it back in time for those I would (but also note that the menu changes every so often; today was the first day of a new menu).

Intelligentsia replaced their Swifts with Roburs. The initial motivation was to prepare their baristas for competition. But they also say the shots have improved; which I believe.

When we tested the big conicals for the TGP, we found out they were extremely easy to level and pack. They were also very easy to adjust. The Swift distributes and tamps very well too, but it is finicky on grind adjustment. Moreover, adjusting the grind is not very intuitive. My guess is that in a lot of places, the grinder is not being adjusted properly.

The swift also uses ceramic burrs. I wonder if that could play into the taste question.

cannonfodder wrote:ceramic burrs

For those who participated in the Titan vs. Vario tests: did this come up? Were identical shots possible (IIRC, the reports said yes for the SJ, at the very least).

The Vario makes commercial level shots, at least as good as the SJ. At that level, it takes a lot of testing to nail the differences between grinders, and nobody I know of has done enough side by side testing.

I have no doubt the Swift makes excellent shots if it's dialed in. But I've tried setting the grind fineness, and it took a while. Given the cognitive disconnect between a grinder that does automatic leveling and tamping but needs lots of grind adjustments, my take is that the problem with shot quality is that they are not set properly.

Here's a very nice (but six year old) article on baskets which details some differences between "Swift" baskets and standard LM baskets - http://www.coffeekid.com/cafetalk/05-16-2003

I do not know whether this still holds true and even suspect that baskets have probably been been unintentionally used without regard to style.

A Swift, a Linea and decent coffee in the hands of a good barista will produce shots that are lovely.
A Robur, a Mistral and the best coffee in the hands of a mediocre barista will produce inconsistent shots that are often marginal at best.

The Swift is just a tool - like all the rest of the equipment.

Malachi nailed it. The reality is that the Swift is often used in cafes where there is more emphasis on rapid production, more staff turnover, less detailed ongoing training, decreased emphasis on achieving absolute excellence or some combination of these factors. Properly used it will provide a greater level of consistency among less highly trained and less experienced baristas than traditional methods.

I don't find the grind adjustment of the Swift to be counter-intuitive. The grind adjust arrows point to Shorter Time or Longer Time. The first adjustment done will not show the desired change in extraction time due to ground beans already in the grinder but all pulls subsequent to that will reflect the change. The amount by which the dial is turned - e.g. a half turn of a full revolution - is very easy to peg to a specific increase or decrease in extraction time. IIRC (it has been awhile since I've used one) a half turn results in about about a 1 second change.

The biggest issue is that very few Swifts are cleaned and recalibrated on a daily basis as they should be. But is indeed capable of producing excellent shots in the right hands with the right coffee. To date I don't think the same statement can be made about any Superauto machine but perhaps they'll get there someday.