Hello,

I recently purchased a used La Cimbali Junior Grinder off of eBay. I received it very dirty, so I immediately cleaned it using the Cleaning Cimbali Jr. grinder thread as a guide. However, I have two questions that this thread or any other source of information doesn't answer.

First, how exactly do I adjust the "grind adjustment ring"? Here's what I did, and it may or may not be correct. I screwed in the burr carrier until both the bottom and top burrs touched. Now, from what I've read, this should the zero point. The problem, however, is that the grind adjustment ring and the burr carrier screw holes must align. In order to align the holes, I had to back the top burr carrier off until I could place the ring at zero. I then screwed it in. Using this method, with the grind adjustment ring at 0.5, a 17g dosed double pulls at about 25 second. I notice most people say a normal grind adjustment is usually between 3 and 4. I'm thinking my grind adjustment is at 0.5 either just because I need new burrs (which I probably do) or because I put it on wrong. Any thoughts?

Second, I would like to clean the doser out really good. Does anyone know how it comes apart?
Thanks for all responses!

Regards,
Will Bennett

Dan,

Sounds like you did it correctly. The reference numbers members toss around are usually relative to the zero point. So while your dial may indicate 3 with a zero point of -1 and mine says 5 with a zero point of 1, we agree to speak of the setting as "4" to avoid confusion.

That makes sense. It seems that the grinder could have been manufactured so that the zero point would always fall on zero, but I guess that it isn't really important.

No, but Dave's Reviving an Abused Cimbali Max may be helpful.

Very helpful; I'll email Dave.

I've ran a lot of coffee through the grinder today trying to get it dialed in. It seems that it definitely needs new burrs since small adjustments yield large differences in shot time. Is that it a good indication?

Also, I've found out how dependent my method is on the WDT. When I dosed directly in the basket, my shots looked horrible through a naked portafilter. My shots have always looked close to perfect using my Le'Lit PL53 and the WDT. I guess that's something to practice!

Thanks for the reply Dan.

Regards,
Will Bennett

New burrs on a used grinder is always a prudent fit. As to the doser, it is a pain, a real big pain. You essentially have to dismantle the entire machine to take the doser apart for a cleaning. Nice thing about the Cimbali's, the entire shell comes off with 5 or 6 screws to expose the entire inner workings. The doser however has quite a few more small screws, trim pieces, springs, etc. It has been a few years and I cannot quote from memory how it comes apart. I would have to partially disassemble my unit to remember how it all came apart.

I would just start by taking the bean hopper off (3 screws), the shell so you can get any wandering grinds out of the chassis. You have already been into the burrs so the grind chamber should be good and clean now. I believe you can unscrew the star doser adjustment without taking the doser off. That will lift out and you can reach inside and wipe it out with a damp and slightly soapy towel. Then wipe it out a couple more times with a damp towel to get all the soap residue out then put it back together. There is not much more to gain by fully disassembling the doser.

The grind index ring almost never lines up 0 with true zero. I believe all 3 of my Cimbali's are off by about half a number either way. That index is more important for overall adjustment. If you go from espresso to drip, say 5 to 16 on my Max, you just have to remember to turn it back down to 5, purge out the burrs/doser/chute by grinding a shot worth of coffee through it and then go back to pulling shots. I find it very accurate and usually only requires one or two small adjustments to dial the shots back in after the big swing.

I went ahead and ordered new burrs from Chris Coffee along with their Black Pearl espresso blend. I've been trying a lot of professionally roasted blends lately instead of just relying on my home roasting skills which are somewhat lacking. The best I've had so far has been Klatch's Belle.

As I said earlier, I'm moving to the Junior from the Le'Lit PL53. I've noticed two things different in the grinds: First, the Le'Lit produces a much fluffier grind. As a result, more coffee fits in the basket coming from the Junior. For example, 17g might overflow a double basket coming from the PL53, where as it goes right below the rim with the Junior. Second, the Le'Lit produces a grind with virtually no clumping. With the Junior there is a bunch of small clumps. Using the WDT, I guess this isn't very important, but with other dosing methods it might be bad?

I have one more question. On 1st-line's website they say, "it is very important to only change grind settings on Cimbali coffee grinders when the unit is powered 'on' and the burrs are in motion." If the hopper is full, and you change the grind setting with the unit powered on, it seems you would waste a lot of coffee. Is this how everyone does it? I usually grind just enough for each shot, but the "popcorn effect" seems to be more prominent on the Junior than the PL53. I don't know how much this is effecting the shot quality however. 1st-line seems to suggest that all burr grinders should be changed only with the burrs in motion, but that it is even more important with the Cimbali grinders.

Regards,
Will Bennett

wgbennett83 wrote:As I said earlier, I'm moving to the Junior from the Le'Lit PL53. I've noticed two things different in the grinds: First, the Le'Lit produces a much fluffier grind. As a result, more coffee fits in the basket coming from the Junior. For example, 17g might overflow a double basket coming from the PL53, where as it goes right below the rim with the Junior. Second, the Le'Lit produces a grind with virtually no clumping. With the Junior there is a bunch of small clumps. Using the WDT, I guess this isn't very important, but with other dosing methods it might be bad?

I'd probably suggest holding off on these concerns until you have new burrs in there.

wgbennett83 wrote:As I said earlier, I'm moving to the Junior from the Le'Lit PL53. I've noticed two things different in the grinds: First, the Le'Lit produces a much fluffier grind. As a result, more coffee fits in the basket coming from the Junior. For example, 17g might overflow a double basket coming from the PL53, where as it goes right below the rim with the Junior. Second, the Le'Lit produces a grind with virtually no clumping. With the Junior there is a bunch of small clumps. Using the WDT, I guess this isn't very important, but with other dosing methods it might be bad?

I have one more question. On 1st-line's website they say, "it is very important to only change grind settings on Cimbali coffee grinders when the unit is powered 'on' and the burrs are in motion." If the hopper is full, and you change the grind setting with the unit powered on, it seems you would waste a lot of coffee. Is this how everyone does it? I usually grind just enough for each shot, but the "popcorn effect" seems to be more prominent on the Junior than the PL53. I don't know how much this is effecting the shot quality however. 1st-line seems to suggest that all burr grinders should be changed only with the burrs in motion, but that it is even more important with the Cimbali grinders.

Regards,
Will Bennett

The only thing I have to add to what Dan wrote is that the Cimbali Junior (and its automatic cousin, the Cadet), as well as the Cimbali Max, are all horrid grinders if your intention is to grind per shot leaving the hopper essentially empty. You will get lots of popcorning with any of these grinders and the shot quality WILL suffer. All of these grinders will operate at their best only if you leave enough coffee in the grinder hopper to weight down the beans that are being ground at any point in time. I never intentionally operate my Maxs (I no longer use my Junior/Cadet grinders) with less than ~75g. of coffee in the hopper. When I am going to change coffees, I either end up tossing 20 or 30g of grinds, or I use them in a cappuccino or other milk drink where the reduced shot quality will be less noticeable.

ken

To answer your question more directly, you should empty the hopper and the grinding chamber if turning finer, unless of course you're willing to waste a bit of coffee by running it while adjusting. It is not necessary to empty the hopper and grinding chamber or run the motor if turning coarser. Very small adjustments either way can be done without emptying the hopper or grinding chamber, but there is a slight risk of the burrs binding and stalling the motor. Powering the motor without it spinning is a bad thing.

That answers my question completely. Thank you! One other question just came up. There is a counter on the front of the doser that gets incremented each time the doser is used. What exactly is the purpose of it? Maybe someway to measure the life of the burrs (Each dose should equal an approximate amount of coffee, so a certain number of doses equals the life of the burrs?) Also, do you know how to reset it?

The only thing I have to add to what Dan wrote is that the Cimbali Junior (and its automatic cousin, the Cadet), as well as the Cimbali Max, are all horrid grinders if your intention is to grind per shot leaving the hopper essentially empty. You will get lots of popcorning with any of these grinders and the shot quality WILL suffer.

Thanks for the warning. I'll make sure to keep the hopper full. I'll have to figure out a new way to measure dose, by grinding time maybe? What is the difference between an automatic, like the Cadet, and a manual grinder?

Ummm, I have had a bit of a different experience with my junior. I have found that grinding per shot gives me excellent results. Perhaps the difference here is that my burrs are good, and I weigh my shots. Using the doser in a per shot manner I have never seen more than a .2g difference pre ground vs ground. I was worried about using the grinder in this way (something that was damn near impossible with my mazzer mini) but it works extremely well. As for the fluffiness of the Junior vs your le-lit I can't say specifically (since I've never used that grinder) but a new set of burrs along with the agitation created by multiple "thwacks" of the of the doser lever should create fluffy espresso with no clumps.

As for the doser, after you remove the back case (screws on the bottom) there are two screws that hold the doser bottom on, and then two screw/nuts at the bottom of the doser that hold it to the front case. Once you remove those two screws you'll notice some play. Remove the plastic trim surrounding the doser (bottom trim snaps in and two screws on the side trim, one each side) The top doser trim clicks in, but once you remove it the plastic doser window will come off. If you need I have some pictures that may help you with your cleaning. I used some Jo-Glo and soaked all of the parts except the doser mechanism, vacuumed the hell out of it and used lots of q-tips and alcohol. It came out rather nice. Good luck!

Dennis

Chosemerveilleux wrote:Ummm, I have had a bit of a different experience with my junior. I have found that grinding per shot gives me excellent results. Perhaps the difference here is that my burrs are good, and I weigh my shots. Using the doser in a per shot manner I have never seen more than a .2g difference pre ground vs ground. I was worried about using the grinder in this way (something that was damn near impossible with my mazzer mini) but it works extremely well.
Dennis

Hi Dennis,

Etes-vous francophone?

Here's something to try: Just for laughs, try using the grinder with more beans in the hopper. I'm not suggesting that you don't weigh your grinds, but weigh them after you grind (since for this trial you will be using a hopper that has more beans in it, so weighing before grinding will not work). Try to keep 3 or 4 oz. of coffee in the grinder hopper at all times for this little test. You will need to adjust your grind coarser, since you are used to using your grinder empty, and hence the grinds are by definition coarser as a result of this. When you put more beans in the hopper the grind will become "finer" in comparison so you need to adjust for this.

Try this little test for long enough to determine if it makes any difference for your straight shots; I'd suggest a 4 day to one week trial.

My guess is that you will find that your shots have improved in both average taste and in consistency from shot to shot.

ken

I'm with Ken on this one.
The popcorning effect is quite noticeable.

Grind adjustment, if you are making small adjustments like changing the grind one or two clicks either direction to fine tune a blend, I dont worry about running the grinder while adjusting. If I am making a half to full number adjustment, which is pretty large, I will pulse the motor a few times while adjusting.

The counter on the doser, not really sure. In a cafe where they run the doser full of coffee and have the star adjusted for a specific dose, one pull would be one shot. So you could use it as an index to count how many shots you have pulled in a day. Beyond that, useless.

Grind per dose, not really what the machine was designed to do, along with every other commercial grinder on the market. Some of the smaller home grinders were designed that way and the Versalab was specifically made for dose per grind work. Flat burr grinders suffer much less popcorning than conicals. You will still get a little, but no where near as much as a conical. My Max will occasional pop beans completely out of the hopper if I have the lid off while cleaning it out for the next blend. You can still dose per shot, but you have to consistently dose per shot. Your grind will vary from the beginning to the end. As the bean column gets chewed up, the back pressure drops, as it drops the grind gets coarser. If you keep enough coffee in the hopper to keep it level with the top of the hopper inlet, you are pretty safe. Once the bean level drops below that you start to get a big drift in the grind. I keep about 4 shots worth of beans in the hopper and have no issues.

Dosing, get yourself a scale, dose into the basket and weigh it instead of weighing the beans before you put them in the grinder. You can take the spring out of your portafilter so the basket will just drop in without messing up the distribution. After a while, you will get good at eyeballing it and not need the scale any longer.

Thanks for all the replies.

I have another question, this time about replacing the burrs (I thought it best to post here instead of starting another thread). I just received a new set from Chris' Coffee. It seems by looking at these burrs and the old ones that the top and bottom burrs are the same. Is this correct, or is one burr designed specifically as a top burr and one as a bottom? If so, how do I tell them apart?

Thank you,
Will Bennett

Update 1:
Well, I did something wrong. It sounds like it's grinding, but grinds do not go into the doser. I have to go to sleep, so I'll try to figure it out tomorrow afternoon. Also, I don't think it has anything to do with the burrs being different. I can't find much information, but I read somewhere that all flat burrs, top and bottom, will be the same if the grinder uses flat burrs. Is this true?

Update 2:
OK, so I couldn't go to sleep with the grinder not working. It's working fine now. I think maybe that I was grinding at a level so fine that I cloged up the chute to the doser. Does this seem possible? I did go ahead and switch the burrs, but I don't know if that fixed it or not. I can see that there is a different "pattern" on each burr, but I don't know if their positions matter. I'm sure someone can enlighten me. It is grinding way finer than before I replaced the burrs. I just ground up some coffee 3.5 from zero, and it was way too fine for espresso. I look forward to testing it out tomorrow. Good night home-barista.

Ken,

There is definitely an improvement in grind consistency when I put about 1/4 lb in the hopper. I didn't have problems with popcorning before because I modified the chute with a silicone tube, cut to length. But the added weight of the coffee helps out. Unfortunately it leaves me using more coffee than I sometimes care to, much as opening a bottle of wine could leave one to drink more than initially desired (per its short life once exposed to air) but oh well. Cheers for the tip.

malachi wrote:I'm with Ken on this one.
The popcorning effect is quite noticeable.

Pour moi, aussi.

Hi there,

I'm new to this forum because I recently bought a La Cimbali Cadet grinder and I'm desperately looking for an owner's manual. Can anyone help? Thanx!

I was going to ask how the Cimbali Cadet was different than the Cimbali Junior, and then I came across this at http://www.ifyoulovecoffee.com/grinders/cimbali/cadet.htm:

La Cimbali Cadet Grinder
Our Price: $895.00
Retail Price: $1,095.00
Weight: 9 kg
Width: 8.6 in
Height: 18.5 in
Depth: 14.2 in
Maximum Power: 120 V / 300 W
Water Tank: 1800 cc
Boiler Capacity: 480 cc
Bean Hopper: 2.2 lb

Emphasis added -- JBL

Hey, any grinder with a boiler NEEDS an owner's manual!

Cheers,
Jason