Shife wrote:What does that increase in cost gain you in the home? The Kafatek fits under cabinets, however the EG1 does not. They currently use the same burrs. They both are variable speed. They are both low retention. The EG1 has a lot of cash in manufacturing allocated to all of those radiused edges and cosmetics, so it that is of value to a buyer, then I completely understand. Unless one of them has much looser tolerancing of the burr alignment I would expect the performance to be very tight between them. Both should be excellent grinders for what they are intended for. Two very different philosophies (proprietary vs. kiss) have resulted in two very similar grinders by sharing a common goal of precision alignment of the burr sets.

My point wasn't which is better or a better value, it's that both are suited for home use and the flat burr monolith wasn't just an EG-1 for the home. I just checked the LWW website, and the EG-1 is 460 mm (18.1 inches) tall. I think that qualifies for home use.

Sideshow wrote:Doesn't the EG-1 already easily work for the home environment, in terms of its footprint and usability? I know the EG-1 is more expensive. However, if you can spend a little over $2k for a grinder, then you can probably spend a little over $3k for a grinder.

I believe when news of EG-1 was first leaked, it was reported that its target audience was cafes not personal home use. That line is somewhat artificial for most of us.

Patagent wrote:I believe when news of EG-1 was first leaked, it was reported that its target audience was cafes not personal home use. That line is somewhat artificial for most of us.

I figure most of us just ignore that anyway. Besides, the EG-1 specs have been posted long enough for all of us to see them. If folks are putting Konys, Roburs, K10s, Slayers, or La Marzoccos in their homes, then I think that distinction is meaningless insofar as price or even dimensions are concerned. I've even seen my humble Mazzer Mini E Type A in cafes for decaff or single origins, meaning that even that grinder is commercial grade and not designed for home use.

I think the EG-1 is just as appropriate for home use as any of the machines most of us have. Now price and value, that's a different discussion. However, I don't think saying that the Monolith flat is like an EG-1 for the home, or that an EG-1 won't fit under your cabinets, is all that accurate/helpful.

EG-1 has a burr chamber that comes completely apart in seconds with no tools (and without even temporarily moving either burr), no cap to mess with, microstepped adjustment for exactly repeatable settings, and the upcoming version has magnetic burrs.

It's a close race for me and I'm not sure what I want to get, but there are things that each has that draw me in over the other.

I agree, the next grinder I get will likely be one of these two. I really want to see how the user experiences, taste comparisons, and durability comparisons play out over time.

If the HG-1 2014 is any indication of EG-1's expectation, they seem to value more form over function in my honest opinion - creating marketing buzz over values to the customers (apple designer for coffee grinder? Matt Perger's endorsement? It's going to cost the customer in one way or another).

The HG-1 alignment wasn't very good (also advertised as user-alignable, but it is only 'partially alignable' because you can't align all way round - so it only gives false sense of security, but not genuinely functional); the Braille reading as grind marker is useless - another example form over function (but they finally changed it in the 2016); the surface finish looks beautiful, but stains/scratchs all too easily even with care (again, form over function). The blind tumbler looks absolutely stunner, but absolutely rubbish in terms of workflow (you still need to WDT and doesn't work any better than the funnels, and 'ding ding ding' annoys the hell out of me so it stayed in the drawer when I had it)... They do have excellent customer service so I really (and I suspect many others) hesitate to say anything negative about the grinder. It's a great grinder alright (definitely with some serious quirks), but form over function philosophy is the impression I'm getting (plus what I am seeing now with EG-1 - hyped for almost a year - more precise than anything on the market, anyone remember? - when Monolith has been shipped already and prototype has been done tested quietly in the background). Oh and another thing - the EG-1 seemed so picture-perfect without any cable whatsoever, and many were shocked when it actually comes with an external box.

Kafatek on the other hand, seems to come from another corner (functionality). Rigid alignment and usability seems to be the goal. CNC-machined tolerance and QCed unit-by-unit in low production quantity (this can be seen as part of the 'marketing' but it seems like a fair claim of fact). Jury is still out there in terms of how it pans out but the grinder is certainly designed with a completely different approach.

In reality, both approaches will have their own following. It's always good for us consumers to have more choices.

Sideshow wrote:I figure most of us just ignore that anyway. Besides, the EG-1 specs have been posted long enough for all of us to see them. If folks are putting Konys, Roburs, K10s, Slayers, or La Marzoccos in their homes, then I think that distinction is meaningless insofar as price or even dimensions are concerned. I've even seen my humble Mazzer Mini E Type A in cafes for decaff or single origins, meaning that even that grinder is commercial grade and not designed for home use.

I think the EG-1 is just as appropriate for home use as any of the machines most of us have. Now price and value, that's a different discussion. However, I don't think saying that the Monolith flat is like an EG-1 for the home, or that an EG-1 won't fit under your cabinets, is all that accurate/helpful.

Just because we have decided to use commercial grinders and equipment in our home, doesn't make them any more suited for such purpose!

Let's be honest, any commercial grinder used in a low flow home environment basically need to be dealt with. The two most common ways to do it, is flushing any stale grounds out of the grinding path or modding the doser or making the grinder doserless and SD with a combination of a pulse and sweeping routine.

It didn't make a lot sense, back in those days when we started doing it, it still doesn't. But we have learned to live with i, because we until just recently had no other options if wanted the best results and the highest consistency.

This however does not make the EG a home grinder. First of all it is designed for commercial use, it has a short commercial warranty, for some people it will still be too tall for their low cabinets, it still around the size of a k10pb (with a short stack) the Monolith flat is substantially smaller and therefore more countertop friendly. But most importantly the Eg-1 is allot more expensive, last time I checked around 50%.

Yes it is in many ways more suited than those grinders we traditionally decided to use in our home, that I can agree with, but realistically it is not going to change the landscape for home users at all due to its price.

The only thing I can give LM credit for is enlightening us to the fact that grinders really need to be aligned well.

Not because they have done it, but because so many of the HG-1 grinders were not aligned at all.

malling wrote:First of all it is designed for commercial use, it has a short commercial warranty

I didn't see a warranty mentioned at all for the Monolith. Does anyone know what warranty it carries?

malling wrote:But most importantly the Eg-1 is allot more expensive, last time I checked around 50%.

Is that "most important?" I don't know where you checked, but according to Kafatek's site, the Monolith is $2450 + S/H, with no pre-order discount; the EG-1 is $3295, or $2795 if you preordered, + S/H. That is a 34% premium, or 14% for those that preordered. That's a substantial premium, but pretty far short of 50%. It will be interesting to see how they compare in terms of workflow.

Both grinders strike me as neither "home" nor "commercial" use-they are far more alike than they are similar to any other grinder I've seen on the market. Both seem to fit squarely in the "lab espresso grinder" category that seems, as near as I can tell, to be originated by the Versalab. The fact that the EG-1 is marketed as a commercial grinder is nothing more than that-marketing.

These are both highly specialized grinders with very high early-adopter pricing. One has more features and is clearly designed with more "fit and finish" in mind, and the other is brutally minimalistic and functional. The EG-1 does look like it could withstand a slightly heavier usage load, but looks can be deceiving, so who knows? They both look like pretty cool, intriguing grinders.

What interests me (and an unknown until people have both to compare?) is the idea of grinder stiffness - single piece of machined steel vs cast and machined aluminium (to my understanding)... without values of comparison who's to say what's better here, some aluminium is harder and stiffer than some steels.
There are things that might be relevant to me as a home user, such as:
Alignment is hands-off for the Monolith and optionally hands-on for the EG-1... if I can avoid tinkering and screwing things up that's a rational bonus, but an emotional negative? Who doesn't like to tinker!
The coatings - retention at 0.3g is more than I usually accept in the EG-1 and based on pictures it seems like there is a much shorter bean path in the Monolith. I notice on my grinders at least that burrs and the the hopper throat can retain fragments/particles and this seems accessible on the Monolith to brush out?
Wipers are consumable in the EG-1 vs coated? Unsure here.
Modular design in EG-1 to replace components is a plus but no mention in the Monolith, perhaps the same?