So I thought I would give the grinder gurus here something new (maybe) to ponder.

In summary, I kind of accidentally found out that you can put burrs for a Cimbali Jr grinder in a Mazzer Super Jolly, so I am sure you can do vice versa, although I did not actually try that.

Long version.
I happen to have both a Cimbali Jr grinder, and a Mazzer Super Jolly at the same time. I bought the Jr from Craigslist, but have had some problems with it, see here
Used Cimbali Cadet hard to adjust
I am still working on the Jr, and I am making progress, but it has been slow. Will get it working one of these days.

In the meantime, I lucked into an Ebay auction that sent a Super Jolly (SJ) and two Majors my way. Unfortunately, all of them had rusted burrs, I think the seller was not careful with when cleaning them, and got stuff on the burrs that caused the rust.

The SJ was fine, except for the burrs, so I decided to see if I could use the Jr burrs. I had bought new burrs for the Jr, and they are collecting dust until the Jr gets fixed.

I compared the burrs, but did not measure them, and for some reason decided they were the same.
You can see pictures of the burrs here
http://drop.io/randy_burrs#
The two rusty ones in the same picture are the old ones I pulled out of the SJ.
The other two pics are the new ones I bought for the Jr.
They clearly have different patterns.

I installed the Jr burrs in the SJ, and put things back together. It still zeroed out at the same place it had before, and it ground fine. So, I am pretty sure the burrs are exactly the same size. I ran a ¼ lb or so of beans through it, just to try it. The next morning I pulled a shot, and it worked fine, I was able to get a 25 sec, 1.5 oz shot after a few tries.

I was wondering if anybody else had stumbled on to being able to interchange burrs like this?

And this leads to another question, what would happen if you compared Mazzer to Cimbali burrs in either a Jr or in a SJ? Would Mazzer burrs work better in a SJ, or would one set of burrs always beat the other set?

And, are there other 64mm burrs that you could use in a SJ or Jr, from another grinder?

The other think I was going to compare tonight, when I get home, is the old Cimbali burrs to what I have. I remember thinking that the old Jr burrs don't look like the new ones. It is actually not a Jr, it is labeled an Alinox, but it is the direct drive version, and it appears to be the same as the Jr. The burrs are probably original, and at least 10 years old.

Randy

Interesting, I wonder if the taste is interchangeable too.

Just to complete this, I took a pair of calibers, and measured both burrs. They are exactly the same height, inside was within a thousands, outside within a few thousands.

Oh, and the old and new Cimbali Jr burrs were the same, so they have not changed the pattern over the years.

Randy

Here are the pics,
First are the Cimbali jr burrs


The SJ burrs

Most all the grinder manufacturers making 68mm conicals use the same burrs, made by some unknown parts manufacturer. We know about the Trespade conical burr found in lots of home grinders because they also make the motor, gear, and burr carrier, which are labeled. I guess we have another manufacturer making an exceptionally successful 64mm burr.

I think when you see this -- the same part being used in lots of machines -- that while it's no guarantee it's the best, it is a guarantee that it's pretty darn good.

Hi Jim
But they aren't the same. The patterns are a little different.
However, I believe that both burrs are made by the same unknown company. Find it hard to believe that they are basically the same size, if they were made by different companies, in different places.

At little while ago, I saw a post from someone associated with Cimbali claiming that all of their parts were made in house, including burrs. It seems more likely to me that they have someone make their burrs, to their specs. They also probably have a deal with the burr manufacturer, so that only Cimbali can buy the burrs made per the Cimbali specs.

Randy

randytsuch wrote:At little while ago, I saw a post from someone associated with Cimbali claiming that all of their parts were made in house, including burrs. It seems more likely to me that they have someone make their burrs, to their specs. They also probably have a deal with the burr manufacturer, so that only Cimbali can buy the burrs made per the Cimbali specs.

Randy

I don't believe this to be the case, as I have been told the opposite by people I respect who are in the "parts" business. It is common to have a supplier produce parts that are labelled with your brand name, and those, of course, are not generally sold to third parties. These subcontractors can and do sell either exactly the same thing or something essentially the same as a generic part, however, of course, without the brand name on it.

This is certainly standard operating procedure when it comes to most grinder burrs and such other parts as portafilters. Many of the internal parts of an espresso machine or a grinder are generic, such as switches, capacitors, many plumbing parts, solenoids, heating elements, safety valves, pumps, and the like. I doubt you will ever find a solenoid inside of an espresso machine that is branded with the name of the mfr. of the espresso machine.

Parts that are very specific to a particular machine, such as many boilers, drip trays, and body panels, are only going to be available from the machine's manufacturer. There is simply not enough of a secondary market for those things to encourage the production of knockoffs, even if there weren't any potential patent restrictions.

ken

I'd be highly suspicious that La Cimabli has the highly specialized equipment to grind burrs. There's huge difference between bending sheet metal and milling tool steel.

Cimbali bought DRM/Alinox, so they have the in-house capacity to make grinders.

However, I don't think any grinder manufacturer makes their own burrs. I recall when there was a problem with Mazzer's own, not OEM, Jolly burrs that they pointed a finger to their suppliers for not properly polishing the end product. (Italian manufacturing has always been extremely decentralized, even before just in time shipping and tight inventory control made this fashionable everywhere; but they could learn from the zero defects parts policies used by the Johnny-come-latelys.)

I've just revised a La San Marco SM90a. Burrs weren't that wasted but when I was at the Wega dealer I thought I'd show the SM90a to see if it needed new burrs. Of course it did (according to the technician), at 75 euro's (ouch).

But, no problem, I also have a Compak K6 which also has 64 mm burrs, as does the Wega Bravo (also known as the Fiorenzato T80) that I have at work.

However, to my surprise it turns out the burrs are labeled MACAP (see picture).

Furthermore there's a Swiss producer of ceramic burs that also produces 64mm ceramic burrs (gotta try me one of those someday!).
http://www.dittingswiss.ch/en/produkte....hlscheiben


Apparently 64mm is a common measure in the grinding business. Most likely the manufacturers choose for the standard measures so there will never be a problem with installing spare parts in places where they can't provide the logistics their brand name requires. Furthermore I think most manufacturers buy the insides of there grinders at one or two white labeled manufacturer and label them their own.

Another example of this is a Conti grinder I had. Beautiful old machine, polished aluminum, 350 watt motor and guess what, 64mm flat burrs. Fumiest thing is that I contacted Conti (french company) and they said they haven't produced any grinders under their own brand and that it must have been an old Mazzer super Jolly which has... 64mm flat burs, just as the nuova simonelli they are promoting on their website these days.

Confused? No, apparently 64mm is just quite common in the high end of the market. To identify the one or two producers of the origin of the intestines we would have to open them all up and that will take some time and quite some money, even at the auction prices that I paid for all of these.

But one day, one day, I'll find out...