How to use doser as intended - Page 3

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
mitch236
Posts: 1195
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:26 am
Real Name: Mitch
Equipment: Strada EP, Robur-E
Location: Florida

Postby mitch236 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:25 am

cafeIKE wrote:For some, enjoyment of the process is inversely proportional to the number of actions and gadgets required.
Others, not so.

I had my first espresso more than 40 years ago with an Italian girl friend :

First-a, you grind-a da caffe
Next-a, you fill-a da basket
Next-a, you make-a da room
Next-a, you pull-a da shot

Nothing has changed.


Except now:
First-a you set-a the timer on your E grinder
Next-a you set the PID to the correct temp
Next-a you select-a the correct VST basket for your dose
Next-a you grind-a the shot
Next-a you weigh the shot
Next-a you put a collar on the basket and pull out your needle and WDT
Next-a you use Stockfleth's move to distribute the grounds
Next-a you select your favorite Reg Barber tamper and apply exactly 20lbs of pressure
Next-a you put the pf in the machine
Next-a you use the paddle to apply line pressure to the puck
Next-a you move the paddle to full pump pressure
Next-a.............

Oh I give up!!!! Next time, I'll just drive to *$

our caffeinated commitment to you
User avatar
bowie
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 2:26 pm
Real Name: Reid
Equipment: S1V2K10"PB!"
Location: MN

Postby bowie » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:23 pm

Am I the only doserless guy who goes through this process?

I weigh the dose, grind, pulse numerous times, sweep the chute, sweep the bulk of the coffee which has collected on the side of the funnel (which is most of the shot), then physically slap and bang the funnel multiple times to dislodge most of the rest.
(June-August, St. Paul, MN, Climate controlled kitchen, Outside temp 95+ Dewpoint consistently in upper 70's.)

cafeIKE wrote:+1

IMHO, clumping is vastly overrated as an issue. A doser does no better job than a gentle side to side shake of the PF to 'declump' to level and distribute. A quick clean of the chute is much less of a PITA than sweeping a doser clean.


Greatest thing I ever did in my espresso endeavor was nothing at all, I don't even shake the PF side to side. My setup spits out huge boulders, but I think it's from the coffee sticking the side of the funnel. These have proven to have no effect on the extraction when I just tamp the pile.

But to bring it back to convenience (if anyone is interested in the thread anymore), is sweeping the doser clean more of a PIA than the above?
May you be cursed with enthusiasm for products manufactured in "developed" countries.

User avatar
RapidCoffee
Team HB
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:05 pm
Real Name: John Weiss
Equipment: Mazzer Robur, LaSpaziale S1, plus every coffee brewing device invented to date ;-)
Location: Rapid City, SD

Postby RapidCoffee » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:59 pm

bowie wrote:Am I the only doserless guy who goes through this process?
... snip ...
But to bring it back to convenience (if anyone is interested in the thread anymore) , is sweeping the doser clean more of a PIA than the above?

You certainly make this procedure sound much worse than doser thwacking. My experience differs:

  • The effort expended in weighing the dose, grinding, and grinder pulsing is the same for dosered and doserless models.

  • Sweeping the chute clean depends on access to the chute. This is easier on my doserless setup, but may not be on yours.

  • Doser lever thwacking is obviously only needed on dosered grinders. Ditto for any extra effort expended in sweeping out the doser.

  • Dosers do tend to break up clumps, but my ghetto-modded doserless Major is remarkably unclumpy - significantly less so than the clump-monster Super Jolly that preceded it. I have no idea why your Major is so clumpy. Mine spits out the grinds too quickly to build up in the chute and extrude like a sausage (which produces the clumps).

  • Even though I grind into a plastic funnel, very little coffee sticks to the sides. The only grinds that stick are fines, undoubtedly due to static electricity. Again, I am at a loss to understand why "the bulk" of your grinds stick would to a metal doserless funnel. Perhaps it is due to higher humidity, although it's been a wet year here, and that seems unlikely.

Regardless, sorry you're having so much difficulty. Good luck!
John

pizzaman383
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 2:42 pm
Real Name: Curtis Ide
Equipment: VBM DDv2, Doge 83 w/Mazzer Burrs, Behmor Brazen, KA w/PID, KA Grinder w/Mazzer Burrs, Graziella PID
Location: Roswell, GA

Postby pizzaman383 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:35 pm

bowie wrote:Am I the only doserless guy who goes through this process?

I weigh the dose, grind, pulse numerous times, sweep the chute, sweep the bulk of the coffee which has collected on the side of the funnel (which is most of the shot), then physically slap and bang the funnel multiple times to dislodge most of the rest.
(June-August, St. Paul, MN, Climate controlled kitchen, Outside temp 95+ Dewpoint consistently in upper 70's.)

[snip]

But to bring it back to convenience (if anyone is interested in the thread anymore), is sweeping the doser clean more of a PIA than the above?


I go through a similar process. I find sweeping the funnel is easier than sweeping the doser.

After seeing a picture here, I made my dosered grinder into a doserless by taking the guts out of my doser and putting a plastic funnel inside the doser body. I weigh the beans, grind the beans, use a little plastic hook to pull grinds out of the grinder exit chute to keep it from building up/clumping, brush out the chute, pulse once, then brush the few grinds that hang up in the funnel. While this is a little hassle I think it takes less time and is less hassle than the constant pulling/thwacking of the doser and brushing out the doser. It works the same whether I weigh enough beans for one, two, or three shots.

Figuring out an efficient way to sweep the chute has helped reduce the hassle level. Again copying an idea I found in a picture here, I made a little tool that lets me pull the grinds out of the chute without it hitting the burr holder. I also brush the top of the chute as well as the bottom because the grinds clump up there. Brushing the top first makes the brushing more effective and faster.

Here's a picture of the funnel. It is made from a plastic folder curled and shaped to fit with pop-rivets holding it in shape. It looks kludgey and I thought I would want to replace it but it's working well enough that I just might keep it. The grinds don't seem to get stuck on it very much and it doesn't seem to have a static problem.
Image
Curtis

User avatar
Marshall
Posts: 2744
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 5:00 pm
Real Name: Marshall Fuss
Equipment: LM GS/3 MP; Mahlkonig K30 Vario; Bonavita Dripper; Mahlkonig ProM
Location: Los Angeles, California

Postby Marshall » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:53 pm

I weigh nothing. I set my grinder's timer to repeat the same dose, which it does consistently.
I thwack nothing. There is no doser.
I brush nothing. There is no funnel or other path to collect grounds.

What I do is, hold the portafilter in place and let the grinder fill it until its electronic timer stops it. I interrupt the grind twice and rap the portafilter on the base to settle the fluffy grounds.

If it's the first grind in the morning, I run the grinder for a second to run out any grinds left in the burrs from the night before. I know I miss out on a lot of rituals, but it seems to work for me.
Marshall
Los Angeles

User avatar
iginfect
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:12 pm
Real Name: marvin rabinowitz
Equipment: versalab m3,mazzer mini doserless, lido016, vetrano2b, modified hot top,yama 5 cup vac pot
Location: central new york

Postby iginfect » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:26 am

I use Bowie's technique w/o slapping the funnel, just brushing. Unlike most here, my Mazzer is a Mini, a new M3 is being shipped.

Marvin

User avatar
bowie
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 2:26 pm
Real Name: Reid
Equipment: S1V2K10"PB!"
Location: MN

Postby bowie » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:41 pm

Tidying up my OP,
Thanks for all the replies. I picked up a used K10. And I must say that the Compak doser is light-years ahead of my old Mini doser in awesomeness. I may even be converted, but it is certainly too early to tell. One aspect that I always wrote off is the anti-doser argument: "But you have to stand there holding the portafilter." Having been used to standing there holding the portafilter, and having not having to do it now. I must say that this bit alone makes it awesome. However, sweeping the K10's chute is a whole different animal than sweeping the Major's. I can't imagine doing this on the K with doserless style system whether modded or not...

Cheers Boss.
Reid.
May you be cursed with enthusiasm for products manufactured in "developed" countries.

speciality teas and coffee; siphon brewing
User avatar
innermusic
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:33 pm
Real Name: Steve Holt
Equipment: La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi II, Macap MXK, Baratza Vario, Aeropress, evolving taste buds...
Location: Toronto CANADA

Postby innermusic » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:44 am

I don't get the timer thing. My Vario has a timer but I rarely use it, because what with the shuffling and random movement of beans rolling around in the hopper, not to mention some popcorning at the end, the 12 second grind produced different weights every time. So I stopped using it, and of course the MXK does it's own thing with a single dose.

User avatar
Marshall
Posts: 2744
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 5:00 pm
Real Name: Marshall Fuss
Equipment: LM GS/3 MP; Mahlkonig K30 Vario; Bonavita Dripper; Mahlkonig ProM
Location: Los Angeles, California

Postby Marshall » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:54 pm

innermusic wrote:...not to mention some popcorning at the end, the 12 second grind produced different weights every time.

Consistent dosing by timer only works if you have a column of beans sitting in the hopper. Then there will not be any popcorning. I keep a day or two's worth of beans in the hopper.
Marshall

Los Angeles