RapidCoffee wrote:Sorry, gotta disagree on this. IMHO a thwacking doser is a slow, noisy, messy PITA.

With due respect to my friend and noted espressphile...
I respectfully disagree with your disagreement to Jim's post.

My (Robur) doser has the minor mods often suggested; tape sweepers, a small cup inverted over the center, and a Schectermatic Shnozzola. It may not be as fast and quiet as a doserless, but it's not loud by any stretch of the imagination (used a Trespade conical grinder lately?).

I dose into the basket outside the PF with a WDT funnel inserted, and I recently got the low-profile Orphan espresso dosing funnel that allows me to use the Schectermatic Schnozz.

This setup is exceedingly neat and clean and efficient. I measure 18g in and I get 18g out give or take a tenth of a gram per shot. There is no mess, no loud noise (I quickly clack rather than thwack)

But this is just my mileage varying from another home user's. I prefer to single dose so my routine has been adapted to that over the years. Someday, sometime, I may make a video for educational purposes.

bowie wrote:My little daydream here is that I would weigh out enough beans for three doubles (36gs for discussion) and grind it all into the doser and viola!

Some days I do something like this if I am running consecutive shots of just one coffee. I measure 1 dose and load it into the hopper and start the grinder. Then I measure the second dose and toss it in as the first dose is finishing, and the same for the third dose (until I have "enough").

Of course the doser doesn't meter the doses as noted, I use it as a dispenser. So I clack a few times to get close and adjust using the scale to make sure each dose is consistent. Since getting the VST baskets I have been weighing every dose anyway, so it's not any additional effort for me.

No problem Jon, I know I'm an outlier. Most of the H-B crew (possibly excepting Nicholas) prefer dosers as well.

FWIW, I've got a similar setup on my Robur, with a Schectermatic Schnozzola plus basket dosing funnel to control messy grinds. The extra noise and effort comes from doser thwacking, not grinding per se. I guess I just find it more annoying than most, especially when compared to the doserless Major.

My SJ has been kludge-doserless for quite some time, and I've thoroughly enjoyed the results... right up until I started changing coffees regularly. The K10 Pro "dose-penser" is quite nice, well built and easy to use. Minor modification in workflow, but I can grind 30g/2 shots' worth quite easily on either setup.

The SJ was THE best in terms of grind retention and cleaning, but couldn't keep up on other aspects. The nicest thing about the doser is that I don't have to keep my hand on the PF/basket while it's grinding, freeing me to scrounge up a clean demi and prepare my notes for tasting. I don't understand the doser hate.

JonR10 wrote:. It may not be as fast and quiet as a doserless, but it's not loud by any stretch of the imagination

Jay Caragay and I had that conversation once. "Thwacking' is a function of the barista, not of the doser. If you pull the handle, and then return it to the starting position instead of spanking it and letting it return on the spring, it's pretty darned quiet. At least quiet enough that the motor on the Major overpowers that small clacky sound by six dBA.

I currently have a dosered Mazzer Major, Mazzer SJ and Baratza Vario and I only single dose. I've modded the SJ with sweeper mod, Shnozzola and inverted cup. Personally,I think even with the mods, SJ is still isn't that great with the doser (convenient wise). A lot of time went into sweeping the chute,the doser and the leftover beans in the throat. The ground sometimes oozes out of the chute like toothpaste and it takes even more time to clean those ground that sticks to the wall of the doser. However, the extra 30 seconds to 1 minute is worth it for the grind quality of SJ.

Did I mention that I have a Major and loving it? It's officially my favourite grinder now. Using an aluminium soda can, I made a catch cup to catch the ground shooting out from Major chute. Minimal fuss/sweeping required and the retention is close to zero too, normally 0.0g to 0.1g. Also, the rocket grinding speed of Major is helping such that you don't have to hold the catch cup there for too long(and no oozing!). No throat for leftover beans like in the SJ. So all in all, what you do is put in the beans, hold the catch cup for 5 sec and transfer to the portafilter with your favourite funnel. I can even shake the ground in the can when transfering to break the clumps (normally none). I've used this method for almost 2 weeks every day for many times throughout the day. Very convenient! I prefer this even better over the Vario due to the speed. The doser in this case works great as the spill tray, though that wasn't using the doser as intended.
The video came out pretty sloppy,as I only have 2 hands (one for camera, none for holding the cup, and one for turning on the switch). But I hope you get the idea.

A half gram of coffee in the throat of the grinder has never bothered me. If I take a typical 14g dose, and replace half a gram of its coffee with the same amount ground 8 hours earlier, I can't detect a difference, either in pour or in taste. However, I've never claimed to be a supertaster.

I started my journey with the Mini with doser. It worked well with minimal noise so I don't agree dosers are noisy. Now I have the Robur E and haven't looked back. After removing the screen, there is no clumping and minimal retention for such a large commercial machine. Either way works but I prefer doserless.

One day we may see a large burr grinder that competes with commercial grinders but single doses efficiently. With all the Robur E's I've seen in cafe's, I would think there's a market for a better single dosing grinder. For now, I just waste a couple of grams each morning "rinsing" the chute with fresh grounds and that's quite acceptable. But with coffee prices escalating out of control, wasting beans may become too expensive!

another_jim wrote:That thwacking doser is a fast and tidy declumper.

-1

RapidCoffee wrote:Sorry, gotta disagree on this. IMHO a thwacking doser is a slow, noisy, messy PITA.

+1

IMHO, clumping is vastly overrated as an issue. A doser does no better job than a gentle side to side shake of the PF to 'declump' to level and distribute. A quick clean of the chute is much less of a PITA than sweeping a doser clean. Even with the ASSchnoz, dosers create more counter mess and have no better distribution.

Shot consistency in thwacker shops is no better than those with timed doserless grinders.
Doser thwacking is entertainment for bored baristas in slow shops and barista wannabe's.

No counter mess if one uses a dosing funnel...

For some, enjoyment of the process is inversely proportional to the number of actions and gadgets required.
Others, not so.

I had my first espresso more than 40 years ago with an Italian girl friend :

First-a, you grind-a da caffe
Next-a, you fill-a da basket
Next-a, you make-a da room
Next-a, you pull-a da shot

Nothing has changed.