I'm trying to understand the doser versus doserless argument, or rather understand all the variables. Part of it is whether the timed doses, on the edoser models, actually substitute for a scale.

It seems to me if you have to weigh a timed doserless dose afterwords, there's not much point? But I must be missing something, as so many favor them...

Nothing replaces a scale. If you're too lazy to weigh each dose then maybe espresso isn't for you

From my limited experience, I am finding my Compak E8 to be consistent within a couple tenths of a gram as long as I keep my short hopper half way full and try to keep the beans in the same age range. Averaging 3-4 shots a day.

Ellejaycafe wrote:Nothing replaces a scale. If you're too lazy to weigh each dose then maybe espresso isn't for you

That's exceedingly silly.

James Mulryan wrote:From my limited experience, I am finding my Compak E8 to be consistent within a couple tenths of a gram as long as I keep my short hopper half way full and try to keep the beans in the same age range. Averaging 3-4 shots a day.

Thanks. That's what I would hope for - if not, it seems doserless is pretty pointless, given the consensus that they actually retain more grounds. (obviously no consensus exists as to whether it matters)

i) Not all timed-doserless are created equal. The high end ones are usually more consistent
ii) As mentioned, the hopper must be kept above a minimum height (half full for example)
iii) Purge the stale ground each session (if it's longer than an hour from last shot)

Fulfilling the three criteria above, doserless can be reasonably consistent.

charlesaf3 wrote:given the consensus that they actually retain more grounds. (obviously no consensus exists as to whether it matters)

I don't see any consensus on your first point either. Unless you're going to spend 10 minutes brushing out a chute on a doser grinder it's no better and typically worse. to even get close with a doser grinder you usually need a reaallly good sweeper.

This is of course assuming you use a hopper. you should never single dose with a doserless, haha (I personally think no one should single dose, as it greatly detracts from the experience for me)

That leads to the dosing accuracy. It varies by beans and I always forget to make adjustments. Luckily, eyeballing it can get you very close with some practice. I don't even use the timer on mine even though it is fairly accurate.

I've no idea whether it's correct, personally, but there really does seem to be a consensus here that doserless retain more than dosers. Counterintuitive to me, but I gather something about the screen?

I've always dosed by timer and eye, but I have found when I weigh that there is as much as 1.5 gram variance going by my kitchen timer. This is probably part the Cimbali Hybrid, and perhaps some variance on my part.

I do always keep around 12 ounces or so in the hopper. I don't switch coffees that often, and I like to "time" things so everything is aged properly for espresso.

To me it is more convenience than consistency.

My doserless is about as accurate as my doser was, it is just more convenient to smack the timer and walk away rather than stand around and chuck the doser.

I will adjust/set the timer to weight (scale the empty then dosed portafilter) until I have the weight equal to the set time. After that I may check random doses. usually they are within reason which to me is under a half gram off from my target.

My timer is 1/100 step setable

I don't think I could go back to a doser after a few years with a timer/doserless

Both doser and doserless retain about the same amount of retention, when used in a similar fashion. The major difference is, when single dosing, you can minimize the retention by continue spinning the burrs after all your beans are ground. This gets rid of the retention under the burrs (this is usually a significant amount). The retention is further minimized by sweeping the chute (less retention than under the burrs).

For single dosing, it takes less than than a minute from grinding to pulling the shot. Yes, it is about 30+ sec more compared to doserless grinding, but less the retention and no purging required. You can pull different beans back to back as well, rather than sticking to a bean at a time.

On doserless with hopper, the area under the burrs is never emptied/purged, so purging is always needed.

Again, the grinder design plays a huge role, not all grinders are created equal.

If you value convenience, go doserless and purge. If you value flexibility, go single dosing and weigh/sweep. Both are valid usage and cater to different types of users (so it's a never ending debate).

I've used both methods for extensive period and the preference depends on usage, both are consistent when done correctly. If I home roast in small quantities, the extra 50gram saved from single dosing means a lot (of 200g roast capacity). If I buy coffee in bulk (1kg), I wouldn't mind purging and convenience triumphs.