Hopper dosing is liberating

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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Spitz.me
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#1: Post by Spitz.me »

Yesterday I got a K30 Vario. The reason why I bought one is because I want to make my espresso routine simpler than what I've been doing for the past 2 years. I've been single-dosing a K10 and have grown tired of the brushing and thwacking. I know that I could hopper dose with the K10, but the amount of coffee stuck in the chute and below the burrs compared to the K30 is huge - or so I've read - and I wanted to minimize waste. I surprisingly learned that the K10 is incredibly loud compared to the K30. I didn't buy the K30 to reduce noise level, but what a f$%$#en treat this is to reduce the noise level significantly.

I don't believe I can go back... Timed dosing has shown me the light. Maybe my title should read "Timed dosing is liberating".... hmmm :mrgreen:
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Jaxx2112
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#2: Post by Jaxx2112 »

I can definitely see the appeal of saving 2-4 minutes when bleary eyed in the wee morning!

Are you still sweeping the chamber at all? Or just purge & go?

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uscfroadie
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#3: Post by uscfroadie replying to Jaxx2112 »

Sweep the chamber ... on a K30? You can't; besides, the retention is in the neighborhood of two grams. If you are really anal, you can set the single dose for about .3 seconds to purge the two grams.

And yes, it's a VERY quiet grinder; much quieter than anything I've owned.
Merle

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Spitz.me (original poster)
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#4: Post by Spitz.me (original poster) »

The time it takes me to pull a shot using the K30 feels significantly less to the time it takes me on the K10. But, that's not the the major reason why I'm loving the K30. It's the new routine that feels so different that I'd imagine it's akin to the difference you'd feel when you overhaul a process and streamline it.

The previous owner had a .1 second timer for the single which I think is a great idea and I'm using it to do purges that give me the most control over waste - since 0.1s is the shortest time you can use.

My 'anality' has gone down significantly since I started down this rabbit hole in 2008. So, the number of .1s purges might max out at 2.

My only issue is that people have reported that the grinder isn't messy, but it really is messy. I'd bet I lose .1g to the tray and countertop while dosing every time.

Single dosing, for me, was quite the process.

1-Weigh beans in container.
2-Put beans in grinder
3-Grind
4-brush - Loop 3 and 4 until you are content - which can be tediously long. When satisfied go to Step 5
5-dose coffee in basket with dosing funnel and thwack until you get all the grounds in the basket
6-weigh the basket - this is just to make sure I've done enough of steps 3 and 4 to get all the coffee out. If not, then repeat steps 3 through 6. If all good move to step 7.
7-Put the basket in the portafilter
8-(optional) WDT - this was not optional for me. I really needed it.
9-tamp
10- READY TO PULL THE SHOT!

K30 process? Well, beforehand I've already, very easily, figured out the dosing time for my desired shots. This was an upfront time cost which was less than a couple of minutes. But, I'm not sure if this experience is typical.

1-press dosing button for desired dose amount
2-press the button to start dosing with the portafilter
3-weigh portafilter for dose just in case. You would repeat steps 2 and 3 if the weight is off, but this hasn't happened much, yet and again, all I'm doing is pressing a button. Easy...
4-distribute coffee in basket
5-tamp.
6- READY TO PULL THE SHOT!
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lain2097
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#5: Post by lain2097 »

You know at least for me doing this espresso thing for like over fifteen years I never got into this fidgety weighing and various distribution "procedure". Dunno to me it seems to be a 'coffee forum' kind of thought.

With various doser grinders I would run it for as long as needed, eyeball amount, sweep, scrape, tamp, lock and load.

Mazzer mini E, program enough to almost fill, top up manually, tamp, lock and load.

Now with a Versalab M3, eyeball two scoops of beans (~14g), scrape, lock and load.

I subscribe to the scrape off method as I hate to touch the actual coffee especially if I am preparing for someone other than me.

Simple. And yes I can nail between 25-27 seconds even with switching coffees / roasts on most good days. It's not perfect but I can knock out espressos very quickly this way.

Jaxx2112
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#6: Post by Jaxx2112 »

uscfroadie wrote:Sweep the chamber ... on a K30? You can't; besides, the retention is in the neighborhood of two grams. If you are really anal, you can set the single dose for about .3 seconds to purge the two grams.

And yes, it's a VERY quiet grinder; much quieter than anything I've owned.

Whooops. Meant the chute / brushing up in towards the burrs. Not super familiar with the K30, and also slightly sleepy eyed today.

Good to know on retention.

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canuckcoffeeguy
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#7: Post by canuckcoffeeguy »

Spitz.me wrote:Yesterday I got a K30 Vario. The reason why I bought one is because I want to make my espresso routine simpler than what I've been doing for the past 2 years. I've been single-dosing a K10 and have grown tired of the brushing and thwacking. I know that I could hopper dose with the K10, but the amount of coffee stuck in the chute and below the burrs compared to the K30 is huge - or so I've read - and I wanted to minimize waste. I surprisingly learned that the K10 is incredibly loud compared to the K30. I didn't buy the K30 to reduce noise level, but what a f$%$#en treat this is to reduce the noise level significantly.

I don't believe I can go back... Timed dosing has shown me the light. Maybe my title should read "Timed dosing is liberating".... hmmm :mrgreen:
And how about the difference in the cup? What's the verdict there?

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wrz0170
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#8: Post by wrz0170 »

HG One. For me, that was liberating. Even at 4:30am every morning. Well, 5:00am on weekends for sleeping in. I'm a rebel on weekends.

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russel
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#9: Post by russel »

Jaxx2112 wrote:Whooops. Meant the chute / brushing up in towards the burrs. Not super familiar with the K30, and also slightly sleepy eyed today.

Good to know on retention.
The actual chute of a K30 can't be brushed. The chute you can see is a secondary chute fed from the actual burr chamber outlet chute. This internal chute is quite small and was bisected by a metal or rubber clump breaking flap on the first couple or revisions. I think the latest revision uses a plastic oraface similar to a Walmart logo or a certain novelist's self portrait.

For those not familiar with the internal structure of a K30, it's basically a motor/grind-chamber floating inside a case that's more than 2x it's diameter. There's a lot of air space in there and very little contact between the core and the case. I've owned 3, and it's quite a well designed machine that's a huge break from the traditional (Italian) approach to grinder design. My only real critique of it is that the early one's were over engineered, and relied on some rather dainty internal bits in key places. They have gotten better with each revision.
russel at anacidicandbitterbeverage dot com

pacificmanitou
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#10: Post by pacificmanitou »

I had this same experience when I started using a baratza vario after a long time with a Mazzer. The simplicity of grind and go is hard to beat.
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