Hand (grinder) Jive - a photo essay - Page 139

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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grog
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#1381: Post by grog »

I love my Pharos. And I just can't quite take my favorite vintage hand grinders out of rotation, either.
LMWDP #514

gail
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#1382: Post by gail »

I have several very good vintage and one new Tre Spade hand grinders that I use for almost solely for espresso, but I am considering getting a more expensive modern hand grinder such as a Lido E, a Hausgrind or a Feldgrind. I would not go for a big guy like a Pharos or an Hg-1 because I don't have room on my counter-top for another big coffee appliance. I don't want a big electric grinder for the same reason.
My question is: Is it worth it?
Most people agree that the modern grinders are manufactured to smaller tolerances, but I have read conflicting reports about whether this increased precision translates into a better flavor in the cup. Is this a matter of different taste preferences? Or that other variables outweigh the difference made by the increased precision? Has anyone done a blind tasting test of a high quality vintage versus a high quality modern hand grinder?
I am not having special problems with regulating the grind with the equipment I am using, the grind seems pretty even, I can get the ground coffee into the filter without too much trouble, and the flavor is good.But maybe I don't know what I am missing?
What do you guys who have both kinds think?

summer
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#1383: Post by summer »

gail wrote:I have several very good vintage and one new Tre Spade hand grinders that I use for almost solely for espresso, but I am considering getting a more expensive modern hand grinder such as a Lido E, a Hausgrind or a Feldgrind.
My question is: Is it worth it?
I am not having special problems with regulating the grind with the equipment I am using, the grind seems pretty even, I can get the ground coffee into the filter without too much trouble, and the flavor is good.But maybe I don't know what I am missing?
What do you guys who have both kinds think?
I have some old (Dienes, KyM, Zassenhaus), some old I have put new burrs in (Lehnarts, RockHard) and a new Rosco.
For my use (espresso, aeropress, Kone and french press) my grinders with new burrs perform better, than my old burrs.

I think the shape of the Rosco (tube shape, like Lido or Hausgrind) is very bad when it comes to light roasted beans - its way too hard to hold the grinder, while grinding espresso out of the hard beans. So actually, for my espresso with light roasted beans, I prefer my old boxes with new burrs.

But for the average dark roasted espresso roast, my Rosco outperforms my older grinders - most in consistency, and a little bit in taste (but not much).

gail
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#1384: Post by gail »

I have put new burrs in (Lehnarts, RockHard) and a new Rosco.
Where did you find new burrs that would fit?

Some vintage grinders seem completely "unused", although clearly they were made a long time ago. Is that what you mean by "new"?

summer
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#1385: Post by summer »

gail wrote:Where did you find new burrs that would fit?
Some vintage grinders seem completely "unused", although clearly they were made a long time ago. Is that what you mean by "new"?
I installed new burrs in the grinders. Rossi 38mm in the Lehnarts, Macap 63mm in the RockHard. 8)

First I installed the Rossi 38mm in my Zassenhaus, but later I moved the burrs to my Lehnarts, because it has a bigger box, and a better drawer.
Hand (grinder) Jive - a photo essay
Here is the RockHard with the 63mm installed, and also a picture of the Lehnarts with the 38mm (site is in Danish, sorry):
http://www.espressobar.dk/forums/showth ... mod-(63mm)

In the Lehnarts I have no real lower bearing, only a top bearing and a flat plate at the bottom. The grinder works best in the espresso range.
The RockHard have a top and a 'middle' bearing, just above the burrs. It works currently in the coarser press range, but can also go espresso if I want.

Ivor
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#1386: Post by Ivor »

gail wrote:I have several very good vintage and one new Tre Spade hand grinders that I use for almost solely for espresso
Just curious which Tre Spade model have you got??? I am on the fence of buying a Tre Spade, the MC 140 R/V vintage hand mill re-edition, but can't find even a single user opinion on these.

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peacecup (original poster)
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#1387: Post by peacecup (original poster) »

My hausgrind is definitely my go-to hand grinder. It is easier to use and possibly slightly more consistent. I doubt I personally could taste the difference in the cup between my good vintage grinders and the hausgrind, but I do not have a very sophisticated palate.
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

gail
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#1388: Post by gail »

I installed new burrs in the grinders. Rossi 38mm in the Lehnarts, Macap 63mm in the RockHard.
I'm impressed. Unfortunately, that is WAY out of my skill set. Are you willing to take on outside jobs? :)
Just curious which Tre Spade model have you got???
I just have the little cylindrical Tre Spade MC 13R, not the big guy with the fly wheel. I read some reviews of the Tre Spade flywheel on the German coffee forum kaffeenetz.de. I believe you have to mod it at least with a nut (also the cylindrical one) to make the adjustment stepless. Then there is the problem of how to repeat a setting if you want to change it. Some German guy figured out a complicated system with matchsticks of different widths and he seems to love the grinder. Fortunately (or unfortunately for the amount of time I spend coffee surfing) I read German, so I found this system fascinating, but it was also probably over my skill set. Here is the link. Maybe if you put it in Google translate you can figure it out:

http://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/eine- ... ost-837950

In the end I decided I did not have a convenient countertop for such a big, heavy grinder. I did think about it for a while though.

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grog
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#1389: Post by grog »

The Pharos footprint isn't that much bigger than some of the larger KyM and Peugeot box mills, in terms of counter space. I do find the Pharos produces a much more consistent particle size than most of my vintage mills, but I've never done the intense analysis undertaken by some on this forum (using lab equipment to inspect particle size, etc). If your budget is $700+, you might look at the Mahlgut. Appears to be modeled on the Pharos but has some impressive refinements (drawer for grounds removal, no special tools for disassembly, no alignment issues).

I will say this - the differences between the Pharos and vintage grinders become very apparent when using a bottomless PF. I'm much less likely to get spritzers and/or channeling with the same coffee on the Pharos, using the same basket prep method.
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gail
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#1390: Post by gail »

I will say this - the differences between the Pharos and vintage grinders become very apparent when using a bottomless PF. I'm much less likely to get spritzers and/or channeling with the same coffee on the Pharos, using the same basket prep method.
I do now use a bottomless portafilter with my Caravel. I rarely get channeling and almost never spritzers, although sometimes I choke the machine. In fact, I got the bottomless portafilter with a couple of the new Caravel filter baskets from Thijs in the Netherlands a few weeks ago, and it is very easy to choke the machine with tiny holes on the new baskets. With the original filter basket, I don't get any channeling or spritzers either, and the machine doesn't choke. Maybe the lever makes it easy to avoid channeling?

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