Lonely Grinders, Part 2

The second grinder is a bit more of a mystery. Like the first one, it's been painted and had decals applied, only not quite so nicely.


This one was so dirty and the burrs so clogged that when I took it out of the box and stuck some stale beans in to test it, they wouldn't drop through the burrs to the drawer. When I pulled the burrs out, the channels in the bottom burr were completely clogged with a concentrated tar of old coffee oils that nothing could get through. They took quite a bit of soaking and scrubbing, but, in the end, were in excellent shape with very little wear (I guess all that goo was a fine protective coating).


It's a finger-jointed drawer, but the rest of the box seems just nailed together.



Inside is clean and springs are intact.


I've seen this 'hourglass' type bottom adjuster before, but I don't necessarily associate it with any particular manufacturer.


Maybe the crank gives some clues, but I don't recognize anything.


It grinds well, though, fine enough to choke the Caravel (and the Synchrony, too). Not sure if it's a keeper or not. I'll have to give it a little bit more of a try.

IMAWriter wrote:George, looks like you have a certifiable case of manual grinder influenza.

Tell me about it. I've got a Pe De Mokka grinder arriving in a couple of days, and I'm keeping my eyes open for a KyM, an older Zass, maybe a C.A. Lenhartz, and a Gesko. Heck, it's cheaper than collecting espresso machines. The plan is to get a couple of good examples that can grind fine enough for espresso from each manufacturer and have a nice display area for them.

As mine is a stepless grinder, how big (in seconds) would you say each step is? Or have you noticed much in the way of longer/shorter pulls per step?

It's a quarter turn between steps, and with the blend I'm currently using, it seems to be about a 10-15 second difference per step, provided I don't change anything else. But I find that by varying my tamp and minor variations in lever pressure, I can keep shot time (and what's in the cup) fairly consistent between steps until it gets just too fine or too coarse to be usable for espresso.

I don't know, GVDub, a red-and-blue hand grinder seems to go well with an orange Caravel and those multi-colored cups you've got in the background.

I'm sensing a worldwide shortage of vintage hand grinders coming on....

George,

#2 may be an Armin Trosser, though I'm hoping that Doug chimes in here. The basic handle and burr adjustment look just like one I've got. Also, the hopper of mine is wood. Could be.

I remember that wonderful flood of great looking mills, mainly new-looking Zass's, on eBay. How do you say "mother-load" in Deutsch? I was able to pick one up too. I certainly didn't need it, but the wood work looked (and is) beautiful. I was also intrigued by the burr-adjustment on top. It grinds incredibly well, but I'm beginning to see that the adjustment knob on top made a simple act too complex - I'll get into how the burr gets adjusted later (got to get back to work). What I really like is its diminutive size. This will be perfect for taking on the road.

I live a little too close to DE now, so I've had to give up looking at Ebay. My grinder closet is full, and I just can't justify any more. Now I've taken to rotating weekly, to have the joy of using each one. It usually takes a day to get it dialed in. Then, if there is more than one coffee on hand, its nice to have two grinders dialed in. Then, if I want to make two consecutive shots, its nice to have two dialed in for the same coffee. Then, there are the machines - let's see, Caravel at work, PV at home, and a very new (today) surprise open-boiler 58-mm spring lever (but that's another thread). Let's see, three coffee makers x two coffees x two shots - my math is rusty, but that's at least twelve grinders. Maybe I do need to start checking ebay again....

RAS wrote:I'll get into how the burr gets adjusted later (got to get back to work). What I really like is its diminutive size. This will be perfect for taking on the road.
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Like this?

This will be the last one for a bit, I swear.

I mentioned that I had a Pe De Mokka on the way. It showed up today. I pulled it from the box, gave it a once over, and realized that whoever had owned this had loved it and taken care of it. The burrs didn't even need cleaning. The eBay seller had said that it had been her grandmother's, and that grandma had used it everyday to make her morning espresso. I believe it. It's perfect. 45-50 turns for 14 grams with moderate effort. It's quick, and it's more than fine enough.








It's a model 510, which I guess is the countertop version of the 520?


So here's the current collection of grinders that I'm keeping. The '30s Pe De countertop with the bakelite drawer doesn't do consistent espresso grinds (if the beans need a grind on the coarse end of the espresso spectrum, it can do okay, but won't go quite fine enough sometimes), so I'm selling it to help pay for my grinder and coffee roasting habits.
From left to right: The new Pe De, the disguised Leinbrock's Ideal, the small Leinbrock's, and the two no-names (or at least I don't know what they are at the moment, but they both grind really fine and well).

GVDub wrote:A couple weeks ago someone on a military base in Germany put up a whole slew of hand grinders. Most of them started getting bids pretty quickly (and there were some nice ones), but there was a pair that wasn't getting any love, probably because they'd both been painted red and had decals put on them. Placed together as one item, they were sad and lonely until I came along and bid. Nobody else wanted them, so I got them for the minimum. They arrived this week, and I did a little cleanup and some testing.

Hey George, I was watching all those hand grinders too! Great that they worked out for you.
Cheers!
Craig.

That is the "newest" Dienes Mokka label. I think the dome-top design provides the best stability for the upper end of the axle. I've only met one Dienes that did not grind well for espresso, but I didn't give it much of a chance. It was an older one, so maybe it had been damaged. The blue PeDe I use daily is also very old, and it still grinds very finely and evenly.

I think you'll appreciate the "speed" of the Dienes for those times that you're in a hurry...

PC

The second grinder is a bit more of a mystery. Like the first one, it's been painted and had decals applied, only not quite so nicely.

GVDub, that looks almost identical to my Armin Trosser hand grinder - at least on the inside. A few pictures are http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/hand-grinder-jive-photo-essay-t4482-100.html

My first post! I've been lurking around for quite some time now - and especially on this thread...

I've already got an Armin Trosser grinder which, depending on the beans, will almost choke my Europiccola on the finest grind adjustment. It's been doing a great job most of the time but I felt like I could use a slightly finer grind. so...

I was sifting through Ebay listings and found a DeVe grinder for £15 (24$) shipped! I thought maybe someone here could tell me a bit more about what I've bought and if it stands a chance of grinding for espresso. It looks exactly like the PeDe I found here:

http://www.dienes.fr/moulin/moulin%20ca ... e%2044.htm

And here are the pics from the auction:



I will definitely post an update when I get it in the mail.

Thanks for any info or comments!

Sorry for being unclear but yes, I was aware of the close relation between the two makers. I thought maybe someone with the equivalent PeDe grinder would have a closer look if I pointed that out...

Roeland,

Sorry for the late reply - I'm not getting email notices anymore indicating when a topic-reply has been published.

Very cool to see the original patent for the burr adjustment (link you posted on May 15th). All I can say is that this topside adjustment knob is convenient, but I just cannot grind coffee fine enough for espresso. And it sounds like I'm not alone with that problem. Clever design, but I can see why it was ultimately abandoned.

Ok here we go with a few pics and a quick review of the De Ve grinder I just got in the mail.






First impression - it's in really fantastic condition. In a much better state than my Trosser. Looks like it's been sitting in a glass cabinet somewhere. The whole grinder feels very precise and smooth. The burrs are quite aggressive and it takes me about 50 turns to grind for a double basket.

Unfortunately, it doesn't grind fine enough to choke my Europiccola. If I overdose the PF and tamp as hard as I can muster I get a little bit of crema but not much resistance in the lever (compared to my Trosser, which will choke my Europiccola).

Here are a few thoughts: is it possible that the De Ve grinder needs 'breaking in'? Although it's a bit hard to tell in the pictures, the burrs look almost new when clean. My beat up Trosser feels loose in comparison but still easily manages to choke my Europiccola - maybe it's burrs are managing to fit closer together because they are worn a bit? The adjustement screw on the De Ve still has plenty of tightening room when the burrs are as close together as possible - Any room for improvement over time?

First, you can loosen the screws that hold the adjustment whirley-bird in place, then try to re-align the burrs. I foget exactly how i've done this, but somehow rotating the burrs till they "find" the center. I do remember you need to have the adjustment tight, but not all the way, I think, or when you tighten the locking screws it will seize the. Its probably a good idea to take it apart and lube the ball bearing anyway.

I've had two DeVe's and both have done the job for espresso. Somehow they seem slightly inferior to PeDe,s but the burrs seem fine.

Common wisdom is not to let the burrs rub too much. But, not being wise, when I have a grinder that doesn't seem to go quite fine enough I just tighten the burrs as far as they can go and grind some beans. Eventually this seems to work, as all of them have gone fine enough for espresso. BUT, this could damage or break the burrs, so do it at your own risk! I personally don't drink anything but espresso, so if the grinder isn't super collectible, i figure its worth the risk. The joy of using a hand grinder in nice condition is so great that it outweighs the risk that it might break.

Anyway, its a pretty piece!

PC

Picked up this PeDe 435 grinder off E-bay. Seems like it's never been used. It looks like it came off a store shelf.

I'm getting some fast pours. I assume I'll have to do some reading to see if I can get it to grind finer.

Any idea when it was made? Are they still making them?

Endo wrote:I'm getting some fast pours. I assume I'll have to do some reading to see if I can get it to grind finer.
Any idea when it was made? Are they still making them?

Mine will choke all of my machines with the burrs touching. Just back form that makes the lever happy, a teeny bit looser gets the Silvia and the Astoria's sweet spots. I dunno if they're making them anymore or not, as I got mine off the ebay. It looked fairly old...