peacecup wrote:Oofnik - now you're grindin baby! This is what I've been suggesting. It's just a theory, but I believe over time the grind will actually become more fine and even as the burrs wear together. At least it seems to have worked for one of mine.
If your shots are still just a little fast at the finest grind there are two other tricks to try: 1) dose fuller - more coffee = more pressure, and 2) tamp twice, i.e.dose half, tamp (or at least firmly level), dose, and tamp. Admittedly this may not be optimum, but I can tell you from experience that it works. Interestingly, the grinder for which I needed to use the trick now grinds fine enough to choke the machine.

PC

Yep - Thanks for the suggestion! That's an interesting theory, especially since pretty much the opposite tends to happen as electric grinder burrs wear! I don't quite understand how that could make sense, but if it works, it works.
I'll be home in a few days and will begin working on my "burr transplant" project soon. This should be interesting...

Well, I consider it to be like two stones in a stone-mill, they just wear together, finidng their own center. Because the inner burr can continue to be adjusted in as the wear occurs, it works differently than an electric burr set up I guess? All I know is that my original Dienes, which I bought four years ago, and which was old when I got it, still grinds a mean cup o joe.

PC

peacecup wrote:Well, I consider it to be like two stones in a stone-mill, they just wear together, finidng their own center. Because the inner burr can continue to be adjusted in as the wear occurs, it works differently than an electric burr set up I guess? All I know is that my original Dienes, which I bought four years ago, and which was old when I got it, still grinds a mean cup o joe.

PC

I just picked up a Zassenhaus "Record 106". It doesn't look like it's been used much at all.

I've tried it for espresso. It works, sort of. It needs a slightly finer grind but I'm concerned about messing up the burrs by over tightening them. Are you sure it's an okay thing to do?

Jon

NO! DON"T MESH THE BURRS TOGETHER ON MY ADVICE!

I've posted a few times that this is a theory of mine, untested, and that I would only use it with a grinder that you are willing to "sacrifice". That is, if you bought if for espresso, and it does not grind fine enough, but you are willing to take a chance in damaging the burrs.

If you think you may want to re-sell it for a substantial amount of money, it might not be worth risking a broken or badly worn burr. That said, I have never had a burr break, and I have never had a grinder wear out.

I bought my original Dienes in 2003. It has been used more or less daily since then, and it seems to grind more finely and evenly now than it ever has. But it only cost $10 at the time, and I was willing to take the chance that it might break when I allowed the burrs to mesh. I figured if it did not work and the burrs got worn it would still be OK for drip or press coffee.

If you decide to allow the burrs to mesh, you might do so incrementally, that is use it a few days at the mesh point, tighten a little, etc. If you are in a hurry, you can try it with white rice, which supposedly cleans to burrs are well.

PC

BTW, that's a lovely Zass! The little wear in the finsih around the drawer handle suggests that someone, at least, has used it a little. That seems to be the first place that wear is noticed.

Thanks to all here I have started on a quest for "minimalist espresso" that consists of a hand grinder and a small lever machine. At present I am in the hand grinder acquisition phase and am experimenting with several grinders. But more about this later.

peacecup wrote:
[/quote]Well, I consider it to be like two stones in a stone-mill, they just wear together, finidng their own center

Sorry peacecup, but I do not think the above is correct. It is my understanding that in a grain mill the lower fixed millstone called the "bed stone" and the upper rotating millstone called the "runner stone" never come in contact. Their surfaces do not "wear together" but are hand dressed to amazing precision and when operational are precisely separated for a particular grain or flour by the Miller.

An excellent discussion on this can be found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millstone and their external link Millstone Dressing Tools

If the millstones came in contact or a hard foreign object came between them it could be a serious problem for the Miller. Because both stones would have to be redressed before they would grind correctly again. IMHO similar holds true for coffee mills. When the metal burrs touch eventually the burrs wear changing the tooth profile and root depth of the teeth. The tooth profile is no longer optimized for cutting and the tooth root depth which sets the minimum grain size( root depth + clearance to the other burr's teeth = grain size) changes. My theory is this results in more fractured grains of irregular size which cause undesirable extraction variation. I would love to here other comments on this. Mine are based on machine tool design and memorable hours spent in an old mill many years ago.

Thanks again for a great discussion on Hand Grinders and Lever Machines

Geoffrey

A great example of new member input-

Thanks for reading and posting. Good luck on finding your first "kit" We will really hear from you a lot then...!

Does anyone know a source of replacement parts for Zassenhaus grinders?

I just bought a used Zassenhaus 150 hand mill from someone on Craig's list. I noticed that the burrs almost always rub during some part of their revolution, and thought they just needed to be re-aligned. However, it looks like there is no way to adjust the alignment, due to Zass's use of a plastic mount for the burrs. It looks like the inner burr was once kept centered by little plastic nubs on the mounting, but these are worn down, leaving the inner burr hanging freely in the outer burr.

Here's a picture:


Aside from the wear on those little nubs, the mill looks almost unused. I'm a bit shocked that Zassenhaus would use a plastic part, especially one that was guaranteed to get worn away. I've heard (on this list) that the company has had some problems with quality recently, but the person I bought it from tells me it is at least four years old. In any case, this seems like a design flaw, rather than a manufacturing problem.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

thanks,
Tom

Tom, that Zass design does not look promising. How does it grind when set to the point where the burrs just touch? How about your Trosser - does that do the job?

PC

I'll have to defer to GB on the mill design discussion - I've never read about or seen one. I suppose also that very presice conical burrs would not need to touch in order to grind fineenough for espresso. Some of the hand grinders I've used do not require that the burrs touch in order to grind for espresso, and others do. I can say that even after grinding for a while with the burrs toucing they still work fine. This does not mean that they will not eventually wear out however. But if I get five years out of each of them, as I have thus far, things will be ok. I have enough of an addiction to want to keep buying them occasionally anyway.

At this time I can't even imagine having a motor-driven grinder paired with my lever machine. There is something so earthy about grinding coffee by hand.